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Title: Remarks on the Present System of Road Making

Author: John Loudon McAdam

Release date: April 7, 2021 [eBook #65022]
                Most recently updated: October 18, 2024

Language: English

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*** START OF THE PROJECT GUTENBERG EBOOK REMARKS ON THE PRESENT SYSTEM OF ROAD MAKING ***

                                REMARKS

                             ON THE PRESENT

                      _SYSTEM OF ROAD MAKING, &c._




                           H. Bryer, Printer,
                      Bridge-street, Blackfriars.




                                REMARKS
                             ON THE PRESENT
                        _SYSTEM OF ROAD MAKING_;
                           WITH OBSERVATIONS,
                 DEDUCED FROM PRACTICE AND EXPERIENCE,
WITH A VIEW TO A REVISION OF THE EXISTING LAWS, AND THE INTRODUCTION OF
                             IMPROVEMENT IN
         THE METHOD OF MAKING, REPAIRING, AND PRESERVING ROADS,
                                  AND
             DEFENDING THE ROAD FUNDS FROM MISAPPLICATION.
                            SEVENTH EDITION,
                       CAREFULLY REVISED, WITH AN
                               APPENDIX,
                                  AND
  REPORT FROM THE SELECT COMMITTEE OF THE HOUSE OF COMMONS, JUNE 1823,
                   _WITH EXTRACTS FROM THE EVIDENCE_.


                      BY JOHN LOUDON MᶜADAM, ESQ.

         GENERAL SURVEYOR OF THE ROADS IN THE BRISTOL DISTRICT.


                               _LONDON_:

  PRINTED FOR LONGMAN, HURST, REES, ORME, AND BROWN, PATERNOSTER ROW.

                                 1823.




                             ADVERTISEMENT.


Since the Publication of the early editions of this Essay, the Author
has witnessed with very great satisfaction the amendment of a large
proportion of the Turnpike Roads, and some improvement of the Parish
Roads. That the reformation has not been more extensive and successful,
may be attributed to the error still persisted in by Trustees, of
continuing the services of persons as Road Surveyors, who are not only
altogether ignorant of the business they profess, but full of prejudices
in favour of their own erroneous practice.

Another and a greater error has been committed lately, in several parts
of the Country, and which has entirely arisen from the desire
entertained of using the new method of Road making. This very dangerous
error consists in employing persons who offer themselves as having been
instructed in Road making on scientific principles, without due inquiry
respecting their skill, industry, and moral character.

Among the many persons who present themselves to be instructed, a very
small proportion acquire a competent knowledge of their profession, and
this number is farther diminished by subsequent dismission for
negligence, drunkenness, and dishonesty.

Of these rejected and incapable persons, great numbers are spread over
the Country, soliciting employment; and many have been incautiously
engaged by Trustees, without inquiry either as to their character or
their ability in their profession.

Under the most favourable circumstances for the constant and vigilant
control of a master, whose public credit depends on the economical and
skilful performance of the work, it is difficult to keep sub-surveyors
in the strict line of their duty; but it may be easily conceived how
much the public must suffer from accepting the services of men rejected
for gross misconduct, and placing them in situations of confidence,
altogether freed from the only control capable of being exerted with
effect. This error, although of recent date, has already been attended
with very disastrous consequences in several places.

A practical experience of Six Years, has served to confirm the opinion
of the Author, that the control of Commissioners over surveyors is
altogether ineffectual; whether for direction in their active duties, or
for protecting the funds of Trusts from waste and peculation. The
unceasing control, and minute inspection of a person whom the surveyors
know to be as much their superior in skill and general information, as
in station in society, and in the confidence of the Commissioners, is
absolutely necessary for the protection of the Roads. Where such control
is duly exercised, good management with economy will be the result; and
wherever a mistaken notion of economy shall continue to prevent the
application of such wholesome and necessary control, the roads will be
imperfectly repaired, and the funds dissipated.

It appears from the returns made to Parliament, that the sum annually
raised for the use of the Roads exceeds the neat revenue of the Post
Office; yet is this very large sum expended through the hands of persons
of the lowest rank in society, under an appearance of control; which
equally deceives the public and deludes the expectation of those who
conduct the general business of the Roads.

Commissioners can only act with effect, as a deliberative body; and
their most beneficial resolutions are rendered valueless, through want
of a steady executive power. Any attempt on the part of _individual_
Commissioners to exercise this power is a still more dangerous course.
The designs of the majority may thus be impeded, or thwarted by the
subsequent interference of a single person.

All other branches of the public revenue are defended by the station and
character of the persons, under whose care they are placed. The
Legislature and the Government have wisely considered it important (with
a view to economy) to purchase talents, and station, as a protection for
every branch of the public expenditure; but in the case of the Roads
they have miscalculated the power and effect of the controlling and
directing authority. A proper comparison has not been made of the
duties, or of the effect of the exertions of a body composed of unpaid
and unresponsible individuals, like the road Commissioners, and those of
bodies composed of Boards of Commissioners, in the pay, and responsible
to the Government for the due administration of the trust reposed in
them: having also proper officers equally responsible as themselves to
act under their directions. The state of the public roads, the alarming
amount of an increasing debt, the loose and neglected state of the
accounts of the several Trusts, are the best proofs of the defects of
the system, and of its comparative inefficiency.

The returns made to Parliament by the several Trusts in the kingdom
(defective as they are) afford matter for serious reflection. England
alone, is divided into 955 little Trusts which may be considered, in
fact, as hostile to each other; while it is evident that unity of action
is of vital importance among Commissioners of the same branch of the
public service, for effecting the great object of their appointment.
While therefore each of those small communities is liable to be biassed
by individual interest or feeling, it will hardly be deemed inexpedient
to recommend some central control over the District Commissioners, that
may have the effect of regulating the eccentricity of their measures, as
well as giving their views, in many instances, a better direction. This
central control will be most beneficially established in each county,
under such regulations, and with such powers as the wisdom of Parliament
may deem most effectual.

A General Road Act must, in order to adapt itself to the exigences of
the times, embrace a comprehensive view of the subject: and effectually
remedy all the great evils which have originated in the weakness of the
system, and have been allowed to grow up, through a want of attention to
the altered state of the commerce, agriculture, manufactures, and
general interests of the kingdom. Until the Legislature shall be pleased
to enter into a serious consideration of the subject, no general and
useful amendment can take place. The great debt, (exceeding at this
moment Seven Millions,) will continue to increase, and improvement will
still be impeded by obstacles not removeable by any other power except
the authority of Parliament.




                                PREFACE
                                 TO THE
                            SEVENTH EDITION.


In preparing another edition of the various papers on roads, which I
have published during the last six years, it may be useful to take a
slight review of the subject, and of the gradual progress of road
improvement throughout the country.

That any further information should be called for, after the numerous
additions made to the original pamphlet, (particularly the last
communication to the Board of Agriculture,) is a convincing proof of the
impossibility of conveying adequate instructions for practical purposes,
by means of the press. It is, however, of the utmost importance that the
_theory_ be fully understood, as from want of comprehending the original
nature of the system have arisen the many fruitless attempts at
imitation, which have cost such vast sums to the public.

The practical utility of some parts of the system is so obvious, that
they have been acted upon in various places, without any desire of
further improvement. It is uncommon now, to meet with roads repaired
with large stones, or of the dangerous convex form, which was the
universal custom about five years ago; but these improvements being
merely grafted on the old erroneous method, have never been attended
with the rapid diminution of expense, and the durable advantages which
immediately result from the adoption of the entire system as recommended
by me.

Those who continue to use any part of the old method of road-making, are
not, perhaps, aware of the principles upon which they are acting. I have
formerly remarked, that the old roads of the country were generally
carried along the tops of hills in search of dry or strong ground; and
it is plain that the first turnpike roads were merely attempts to open
more direct communications through the country, in continuing, by
mechanical means, the rocky paths, to which travellers were obliged to
resort. With this view, large masses of stone were first sunk into the
ground, and afterwards thick layers of broken stone strewed over them,
so as, in fact, to form an artificial rock. The insecurity of this
unskilful structure must be obvious. The rain penetrating through every
part of the surface kept it continually in a loose state, and as it was
imbedded _below_ the _ground_ water, it was constantly broken up in
winter by the frost. Hence the vast sums required for the forming new
roads, and the heavy and incessant expense of keeping them in a passable
state. Any improvements that have been made on this plan, merely relate
to the smoothness of the surface, by more carefully laying on the
stones, at, consequently, a greater expense: but the original principle
remains the same in every road, except those where the new system has
been fully adopted. Under such disadvantages, it is not surprizing that
the roads of the kingdom have not kept pace with the advancement of
every other useful art. The large sums demanded for the first outlay,
and the frequent failure of such speculations from the badness of the
roads, and the expense of their subsequent repairs, sufficiently account
for the tardy progress of road-making. From conviction of the very
insufficient and expensive nature of the method in use, I was led to
consider of the possibility of constructing lines of communication,
capable of conveying the heaviest weights over every kind of soil, and
at all seasons, upon principles purely scientific: a plan, which even in
theory differs as widely from the inartificial methods of road-making
hitherto practised, as the principle by which an arch is thrown over a
river, differs from the heap of stones which constitutes the ford.

The actual experience of seven years, the great extent of road which has
been entirely constructed according to my direction, and the
unquestionable testimony of the Committees of the House of Commons
appointed to enquire into this matter, have now placed the efficiency of
the discovery beyond a doubt. It remains with the country to consider of
the most wise and effectual mode of securing the benefit of the system.

Whoever has attentively considered the weakness and inadequacy of the
present road laws, to protect the great interest at stake, must be aware
of the urgent necessity for some new legislative measures, more adapted
to the present state of the country. The roads are, perhaps, the most
important branch of our domestic economy. The revenue collected for
their support equals that of the Post-office; and any failure in
executing the work, operates as a severe check upon our commerce,
manufactures, and agriculture. Yet a public service of such vital
importance, continues to be regulated solely by the narrow policy and
limited views of the first Turnpike Act, (which were, in fact, mere
experiments in legislation,) while this immense revenue is abandoned to
the discretion or the cupidity of the lower orders of society.

The benefit which I have aspired to render the country, is of a twofold
nature; and my labours have been as constantly directed towards the
introduction of a wise and well-regulated system of management for the
roads, as towards their mechanical construction. I have always expressed
a conviction, that no permanent improvement could take place in road
affairs, without the interference of the legislature; nor has the
success attending the efforts of my family, in various places, in any
way tended to weaken that opinion. The advantages of the new method of
making roads are so apparent, they have not failed of attracting
attention; but I have not been equally fortunate in inducing the
gentlemen of the country to observe the _means_ by which _economy_ and
improvement have been combined.

It is not only to the simplicity and cheapness of the new system, that
the great difference of expense is owing. In every place where the
system has been properly acted upon, care has been taken to place the
road business on the same respectable footing as other branches of the
public service; a complete executive department has been created. The
inferior officers, selected from the most respectable yeomanry, are
placed under the vigilant inspection of a superior, whose responsibility
secures his attention, and who is not liable to be biassed by any
influence in the duties of his office. The great success that has
attended the adoption of this plan, under all the disadvantages of the
present road laws, is an earnest of what might result from its being
established on a comprehensive scale, under the authority of Parliament.

Although no measures have yet been taken for establishing any systematic
plan for the management of roads, it is gratifying to observe the spirit
of improvement which is extending itself over the country. This is
manifest in various ways. The plan of converting the pavements of
streets into stoned roads, was introduced into the Bristol district
about six years ago; and it may reasonably be expected, that pavements
will very soon be nearly superseded by the more convenient, safe, and
economical substitute of stoned roads. Of the superior convenience of
roads, there can be no question; and all the minor objections which have
been started can be so easily obviated, that a very little reflection
will be sufficient for any candid mind. The inhabitants of towns are
generally apprehensive that roads will be less commodious for foot
passengers than pavements: but (if proper care be bestowed on cleaning
and watering) a road made of broken stone will be found more eligible
than such pavements as those of London. In some towns, where the
principal streets are turnpike roads, the commissioners have caused them
to be made of materials broken very small, which, when skilfully laid,
form a smooth, firm surface.

The great difference between the cost of a road, and even the worst
London pavement, would enable the city to bestow such care on the
cleanliness of the carriage ways, as would allow the inhabitants to
enjoy all the advantages of smooth road, with even increased comfort to
the foot passenger.


TO THE GENERAL TREASURER, THE TREASURERS OF DIVISIONS, AND THE OTHER
COMMISSIONERS FOR THE CARE OF THE TURNPIKE ROADS IN THE BRISTOL
DISTRICT, TO WHOSE FIRMNESS AND PATRIOTIC ZEAL IN THE DISCHARGE OF THEIR
DUTY, THE KINGDOM IS INDEBTED FOR THE FIRST EXAMPLE OF THE PRACTICE OF A
NEW AND EFFECTUAL SYSTEM OF IMPROVEMENT IN THE REPAIR OF THE ROADS, AND
IN THE ADMINISTRATION OF THE FUNDS UNDER THEIR CARE; =THESE REMARKS= ARE
MOST RESPECTFULLY DEDICATED, AS A TESTIMONY OF THE ESTEEM AND GRATITUDE
OF THEIR

                                         OBLIGED AND OBEDIENT SERVANT,

                                                           =THE AUTHOR=.




                             INTRODUCTION.


The present very defective state of the Turnpike Roads and Highways in
the United Kingdom, and the continual and apparently unlimited increase
of the Toll Duties, are the considerations, which have given rise to the
publication of the following remarks.

Of the value of the information contained in them, the intelligent
reader will be the most competent judge; the author can only venture to
assure him, that the few facts brought forward in the course of the work
have been most carefully authenticated; that the opinions advanced are
the result of much thought, and patient investigation; that whatever may
appear theoretical, has, for the most part, been already reduced to
practice; and that where practice has been wanting, a long experience of
the evils arising from the present system, and not the mere love of
innovation, has been the motive for the suggestion of the remedies
proposed.

These, however, the author gladly submits to the good sense and candour
of the public; only requesting, in the words of a celebrated writer,
that whoever favors him with a perusal, will not judge by a few hours
reading of the labours of nearly thirty years.

In the following chapters, the subject of Roads will be considered under
three principal heads:

THE MODE OF MAKING ROADS;

THE COMMISSIONERS, AND OFFICERS EMPLOYED UNDER THEM, FOR THIS SERVICE,

and

THE CARE OF THE FINANCES:

Which has appeared to the Author the most clear and comprehensive
arrangement.




                          _REMARKS ON ROADS._




                              PART FIRST.
                      _THE MODE OF MAKING ROADS._


The modes of making and repairing Roads are so various in the different
parts of the kingdom, that it would be an endless task to attempt a
particular account of each. It may, however, be possible to give a
general idea of them, according to the materials produced in each part
of the country.

In the neighbourhood of London, the roads are formed of gravel; in Essex
and Sussex, they are formed of flint; in Wilts, Somerset, and Glocester,
limestone is principally used; in the North of England, and in Scotland,
whinstone is the principal material; and in Shropshire and
Staffordshire, large pebbles mixed with sand.

Excellent roads may be made with any of these materials.

The gravel of which the roads round London are formed is the worst;
because it is mixed with a large portion of clay, and because the
component parts of gravel are round, and want the angular points of
contact, by which broken stone unites, and forms a solid body; the loose
state of the roads near London, is a consequence of this quality in the
material, and of the entire neglect, or ignorance of the method of
amending it.

A more careful examination of facts connected with the roads round
London, has discovered several other causes, from whence proceeds the
defective state of these roads. The greatest appears to be, the division
of the roads into so many small Trusts, which precludes the possibility
of any extended plan of operations, for the benefit of the whole. Before
any one road round London can be properly reformed, and all wasteful
expenditure restrained, a comprehensive view of the local situation of
the whole district will be requisite.

Another great impediment to improvement, arises from the laws and
regulations, which prevent a supply of good road materials, of several
kinds, being brought to London by water, and landed in different places,
convenient for the roads. Were these restrictions removed, as far as
concerns stone, flint, or any ballast for road-making, London is so
favorably situated for water carriage by the river, and by the canals
connected with it, that a supply, equal to the wants of all the roads in
the vicinity of London, might be obtained at a reasonable rate, and of
good quality, so as to render the use of the bad gravel round the
metropolis no longer necessary.[1] But this measure, to be performed in
an economical, and efficient manner, must be done upon an extended
scale; it must become one interest, directed by one select body of men
of weight, ability, and character.

Footnote 1:

  This must not be understood as conveying an opinion, that a good road
  may not be constructed with the London gravel, properly prepared and
  applied. The road at Reading, in Berkshire, has lately been made
  perfectly smooth, solid, and level, with a gravel inferior to that of
  London, and at less than it formerly cost. Carriages make no
  impression on this road, and it has remained good in all changes of
  weather. Nevertheless, a means having been discovered, by diligent
  enquiry, for importing flints, from a distance, the Reading road will,
  in future, be repaired with flint, at half the expence required to
  prepare the gravel of the neighbourhood.

A road near London may be made as smooth, solid, and easy for cattle to
draw carriages over, as the road near Bristol; and the London road _so
made_ will last longer, and consequently be less expensive than the
Bristol road, because the materials which may be obtained are more
durable, and may be procured at less expence.

Flint makes an excellent road, if due attention be paid to the size; but
from want of that attention, many of the flint roads are rough, loose,
and expensive.

Limestone, when properly prepared and applied, makes a smooth, solid
road, and becomes consolidated sooner than any other material; but from
its nature is not the most lasting.

Whinstone is the most durable of all materials; and wherever it is well
and judiciously applied, the roads are comparatively good and cheap.

The pebbles of Shropshire and Staffordshire, are of a hard substance,
and only require a prudent application to be made good road materials.

On the other hand, the Scottish roads, made of the very best materials,
which are abundant and cheap in every part of that country, are the most
loose, rough, and expensive roads in the United Kingdom, owing to the
unskilful use of the material.

The _formation_ of roads is defective in most parts of the country; in
particular the roads round London, are made high in the middle, in the
form of a roof, by which means a carriage goes upon a dangerous slope,
unless kept on the very centre of the road.

These roads are repaired by throwing a large quantity of unprepared
gravel in the middle, and trusting that, by its never consolidating, it
will in due time move towards the sides.

When a road has been originally well made, it will be easily repaired.
Such a road can never become rough, or loose; though it will gradually
wear thin and weak, in proportion to the use to which it is exposed; the
amendment will then be made, by the addition of a quantity of materials
prepared as at first. As there will be no expense on such road, between
the first making and each subsequent repair, except the necessary
attention to the water-ways, and to accidental injuries, the funds will
be no longer burdened with the unceasing expenditure, at present
experienced, from continual efforts at repairing, without amendment of
the roads.

There cannot be a doubt, that all the roads in the kingdom may be made
smooth and solid, in an equal degree, and to continue so at all seasons
of the year. Their durability will of course depend on the strength of
the materials of which they may be composed, but they will all be good
while they last, and the only question that can arise respecting the
kind of materials, is one of time and expence, but never of the
immediate condition of the roads.

The anxious provisions of the Legislature for _preservation_ of the
roads have unfortunately taken precedence of measures for making roads
fit to be travelled upon, or worth the care of being preserved. Will it
be deemed presumptuous to propose, that some regulations may be adopted,
for encouraging and promoting a better system of making roads, by
eliciting the exertion of science, and by creating a set of officers of
skill, and reputation, to superintend this most essential branch of
domestic economy?

When roads are properly made, very few regulations are necessary for
their preservation. It is certainly useful to make effectual provision
for keeping clear the watercourses, for removing nuisances, and for the
pruning of trees and hedges; for these purposes ample powers should be
given to Commissioners; but the advantage of many existing regulations
respecting wheeled carriages may very well be questioned. There can be
no doubt that many of those regulations are oppressive to commerce and
agriculture, by compelling an inconvenient construction of carriages.[2]
The author has never observed any great difference of effect, on a _well
made road_, by narrow or broad wheels; either of them will pass over a
smooth, solid road, without leaving any visible impression: on rough,
loose roads, the effect will certainly be different; but whether a loose
and rough road can be amended by dragging an unwieldy carriage over it,
or whether, if it were possible to amend roads by such means, it can be
deemed the most economical for the nation at large, can hardly be
subject of doubt.[3]

Footnote 2:

  The increase of the breadth of the wheels, though in a greater
  proportion than that of the weights, is by no means a compensation for
  it; because the whole breadth in many instances, from the inequality
  of the ground, or the wheels, will not be brought to bear whenever it
  can, the first impression must be made by the nails, where they are
  prominent, perhaps by a single nail; or the bearing may happen upon
  single pieces of materials, or upon the edges of materials, incapable
  of supporting the weights. _See Enquiry into the State of the Public
  Roads, by the Rev._ HENRY HOMER, _A. M. Rector of Birdlingbury,
  Warwickshire. Published in 1767, Page 66._

  It must be observed, that these remarks of Mr. Homer, and of every
  other writer on the subject of roads, are only applicable to such as
  are loose, rough, and uneven; and that no one seems to have
  contemplated the idea of a road being made at once strong, smooth, and
  solid.—AUTHOR.

Footnote 3:

  Broad-wheeled carriages are found to be so unadapted to the purposes
  of husbandry, the number of horses requisite for their draught so
  great, and the beneficial effects of them to the road so questionable,
  that neither the encouragements on the one hand, nor the
  discouragements on the other, have been sufficient to bring them into
  general use.

                                               HOMER’S ENQUIRY, Page 25.

It must however be admitted, that the wear of roads is proportioned to
the weight and velocity of carriages running upon a given breadth of the
tire of the wheels, and therefore, it is of consequence that some
regulations should be adopted. The best regulations, as regard the
breadth of the tire of wheels, will be found in several Acts of the
Session of Parliament 1816, where Carts are required to have wheels of a
cylindrical form five inches broad; and Waggon Wheels of the same form
six inches broad, with an equal upright bearing. The weights will be
best and most easily regulated by the number of horses, or other cattle,
drawing the carriages: and this, as a regulation of economy, may be
made, by the tolls at present payable on the cattle being levied in a
larger ratio as the number increases.

Waggons and carts with wheels of a cylindrical form and upright bearing,
running on a breadth of tire of five and six inches, cannot injure a
well made road, at the slow pace with which such carriages travel; at
least, in any proportion beyond the toll they pay. On the contrary, it
is certain, that Stage Coaches, with their present system of loading,
and velocity of travelling upon very narrow wheels, damage the roads in
a much greater proportion than the compensation derived from the toll.

Every wheel, propelled by a force applied to its centre of motion, as
the axis of a carriage wheel, is disposed by its specific gravity, to be
dragged forwards, instead of turning round; and the rotative motion is
occasioned by the resistance presented by the surface over which it
passes; yet this resistance does not entirely prevent dragging; for
every wheel running upon a road drags in some degree. This degree will
be proportioned to the weight of the carriage, and the velocity of the
wheel upon its axis, and will be opposed by the breadth of the tire
coming in contact with the road.

Stage Coaches, therefore, carrying heavy weights, moving with great
velocity, and presenting to the road a narrow tire of wheel, must of
necessity drag in a greater degree than any other carriage, as combining
in themselves every cause by which dragging is produced.[4]

Footnote 4:

  Above fifty Stage Coach journies are made daily between BRISTOL and
  BATH: the Author’s observation leads him to the conclusion, that the
  toll-duty paid by them, does not indemnify the funds for the wearing
  of the road.

When the Legislature shall have provided the means of putting all the
roads in the United Kingdom into the best and fittest state for the
accommodation of the agriculture and commerce of the country, they will
naturally consider of the most proper modes of protecting them from
injury, or for indemnifying the funds for the effects of use which are
unavoidable, by imposing toll duties in a just and equitable proportion
on the carriages occasioning such injury.




                              PART SECOND.
           _COMMISSIONERS AND OFFICERS EMPLOYED UNDER THEM._


The care of the Turnpike Roads has been committed by Parliament, into
the hands of Commissioners, selected from that class of society, most
capable of executing the duties of superintendance, and from their
station most likely to perform the duty with fidelity; in this respect
the expectations of the public has not been disappointed; and there can
be but one opinion, upon the obligations the country owes to this very
respectable part of the community. Perhaps the only useful regulation
wanted, in respect to Commissioners, would be to confine the
qualification of Trustees to _landed_ property.

The superintending and controuling power, so wisely placed by Parliament
in the Commissioners, has not, however, been sufficient to secure all
the objects of the Legislature. A scientific, laborious, executive power
is wanting; and no means having been thought of for this part of the
service, it has been altogether neglected, or at best very unprofitably
supplied by a set of Surveyors, altogether ignorant of the duties of the
office they were called upon to fill.[5]

Footnote 5:

  The general laws relating to highways seem sufficiently calculated to
  answer the purpose intended by them, if Overseers were qualified with
  a sufficient degree of judgment to execute them properly, and of
  industry and spirit to do it effectually.

                                               HOMER’S ENQUIRY, Page 18.

General superintendance and gratuitous services, such as the law
contemplated to receive from the Commissioners of Turnpikes, may be
obtained, and have been faithfully and conscientiously given by the
Commissioners; but that constant and laborious attention, requisite to
superintend the executive duties of a turnpike trust, cannot reasonably
be expected from gentlemen engaged in other pursuits. Were they to
undertake the task, it must be subject to all the interruptions of their
private affairs, or other occupations; and this alone would render their
services nugatory. Some instances of individual zeal and exertion, on
the part of Commissioners, in particular parts of the country, have
served to show what benefit might be derived from providing each county
with an executive officer, whose sole attention should be given to the
business; whose services should be amply remunerated, and of whom the
Commissioners might _of right_ demand an account of the manner in which
their orders were carried into execution; who should examine and audit
the accounts of the Sub-surveyors; compare them with the work performed,
and certify them, if approved, to the Treasurers.

In a trust of any extent, say about 150 miles of road, the time of such
an officer would be very fully employed. He must direct the execution of
the repairs, and alterations of the road, when ordered by the
Commissioners; and he must controul the contracts, and other agreements
entered into by the Sub-surveyors, so as to prevent unnecessary expence;
he must examine all work performed, to see that it is corresponding with
contracts, and generally keep a vigilant superintendance over the
persons employed under him. Accounts of all expences incurred should
every second week be delivered by the Sub-surveyors into his office in
duplicate; after examination, one copy to remain in the office, the
other certified, to be sent to the Treasurer, upon which payment may
follow.

Much must depend on the selection of the officer to whom this charge is
committed; he must have a considerable share of general information
respecting country business; the subject of road-making ought to have
been well considered by him; his station in society should be such, as
to secure to him the support and confidence of the Commissioners, while
it commands the obedience and deference of the subordinate officers.

The success of the exertions of individual Commissioners, in particular
parts of the country first suggested the opinion, that a better system
of road-making might be adopted, and the examples of a better practice
extended to all parts of the country; but the benefit can never be
rendered thus general, unless accompanied by the zeal and activity that
produced it; and this can only be supplied by officers, whose sole duty
it shall be, and who will be accountable to the Commissioners under
whose orders they act for the execution of the trust confided to them.
Gratuitous services are ever temporary and local, they are dependant on
the residence, and life of the party; and have always disappointed
expectation. Skill and executive labour must be adequately paid for, if
expected to be constantly and usefully exerted; and if so exerted, the
price is no consideration when compared with the advantage to the
public.

From the want of such an officer, the orders of the Commissioners, after
having been maturely considered, and wisely given, have fallen, for
execution into the hands of Surveyors, selected not unfrequently from
the lowest class of the community, who have proceeded without plan or
method. The consequence is seen in every corner of the country; want of
science in the Surveyor has gone hand in hand with improvident
expenditure, to the injury of the roads, and the derangement of the
finances. A vigilant and unremitting superintendance is wanting to
ensure an economical and effectual execution.

Whether it may not be useful to empower Commissioners in the small
Trusts into which the roads of England are unfortunately divided, to
unite together in sufficient number to enable them to provide a
respectable and efficient executive officer, and for other general
purposes of improvement, is humbly submitted to the wisdom of
Parliament.

The effect of an active and efficient controul over the Sub-surveyors,
in the executive part of their duties; and in rescuing the funds from
mis-application and depredation, is exemplified in the measures wisely
entered into by the Commissioners for the care of the turnpike roads in
the BRISTOL DISTRICT, the success of which has amply justified their
adoption, the roads having been entirely reformed and put into the best
possible state for use, at an expence considerably within the revenue of
the Trust. This improved state of the finances has enabled the
Commissioners to effect several great permanent improvements, without
forgetting the necessary provision for liquidation of the debt, which
had accumulated during former years.




                              PART THIRD.
                        _CARE OF THE FINANCES._


The funds placed by the Legislature at the disposal of the Commissioners
for the care of turnpike roads are very considerable, and might be
supposed with proper management, fully equal to the object; they arise
principally from toll duties, and a proportion of statute labour.

As long as it shall be necessary to raise large sums for the maintenance
of roads, the present means must continue; toll duties, although liable
to many objections, are so _immediately_, and _effectually_ productive,
that little hope can be entertained of the possibility of their being
reduced, until a continuance of a better system shall have materially
amended the roads, and reduced the expence, so as to leave means for
extinguishing the heavy debt owing by the country for this branch of the
public service.

Statute labour, in kind, was decreed by Parliament at a time, when no
better means could be devised: when a circulating medium was deficient,
and when a fair quantum of labour could not, in many parts of the
country, be obtained for money.

Personal labour for a public service can never be made profitable, or
fairly productive; at the same time, it is liable to the great
objections of being made an instrument of partiality and oppression
under the direction of a class of men with whom such a power should
never be lodged, and over whom, in this instance, no adequate controul
can be placed.

The causes, which operated to induce Parliament to resort to personal
service, having ceased, it will be found expedient to commute statute
labour for a moderate assessment in money. This has been effected with
great advantage in Scotland, by most, if not all of the local and county
Acts for turnpike roads.[6]

Footnote 6:

  It is impossible not to see that statute labour is a remnant of
  personal service; a gentleman might as well argue at the present day,
  that rents paid in kind, are more easy and equitable than monied
  rents, as to defend the custom of mending highways by compulsory
  labour.

                                EDGEWORTH’S ESSAY ON THE CONSTRUCTION OF
                                      ROADS AND CARRIAGES, p. 46.

The sum of money annually raised in the kingdom for roads is very great,
and would be found, if carefully examined into, much beyond the general
belief. Government have procured information, as to the sum raised
annually for _parish_ roads (generally denominated highways) but they
have not yet enquired into the amount of the much greater sum raised for
the maintenance of the _turnpike_ roads, nor into the amount of the debt
incurred for the same purpose.

These funds, considerable as they are, continue to be expended,
_nominally_, under the direction of Commissioners, but _effectually_ and
_practically_ under the Surveyors, over whom the Commissioners have very
uncertain means of useful controul; and there is no doubt, that much
abuse exists in the expenditure, partly from ignorance, but much more
from peculation and patronage very much misplaced.

Under such circumstances the protection of the funds would be promoted
by the inspection and controul of a superior officer; and finally it
might be desirable, that a report from each trust should be made to
Parliament of the receipt and expenditure for the year.

That the funds provided by Parliament for the roads are either
insufficient for the object, or that they are improvidently expended, is
best proved by the numerous applications to Parliament in every Session,
for extension of powers and increase of tolls; setting forth that
without such aid the debts cannot be paid, nor the roads kept in repair.
In the Session of Parliament 1815, thirty-four such petitions were
presented; and in the Session of 1816, thirty-two; all which bills were
passed _as a matter of course_; the petitioners being only required to
prove the _actual necessity_ to the Committee, but no enquiry seems to
have been made as to the _cause_ of that necessity.

An efficient, uniform and constant controul of the expenditure of road
funds, and an annual report of the result to Parliament would enable the
House of Commons to form a judgment, whether the deficiency proceeded
from inadequacy of the means, or from improvident expenditure; and
thereby that Honourable House would be enabled to use means for
preventing the growing amount of debt, which the petitions presented
each Sessions sufficiently shew to be increasing to an alarming degree;
and which, being incurred under the authority of Parliament, must
ultimately become a claim upon the justice of the country.

Upon consideration of this important subject it appears, that a review
of the turnpike laws has become indispensable, for the purpose of
altering and amending obsolete, useless, and oppressive regulations; and
for substituting others more consonant with the present state of
society. This review is required by experience of the inadequacy of the
present system, to the great object of forming the best and easiest
communications through every part of the country, with a due regard to
economy; and for preventing the increase of a debt, which has been
allowed, _in silence_, to accumulate to an extent, that will hardly be
credited when properly and accurately ascertained.

Many and important improvements have originated from the good sense and
zeal of individual Commissioners, or from particular district meetings,
the good effects of which have been confined to the place of origin;
such improvements have also ceased to operate, on the death or removal
of their authors, and have been thereby finally lost, for want of a
general superintendance, which would have an interest in the improvement
of the whole.

The defective state of the roads, independent of the unnecessary
expence, is oppressive on agriculture, commerce, and manufactures, by
the increase of the price of transport, by waste of the labour of
cattle, and wear of carriages, as well as by causing much delay of time.

Under an efficient and responsible executive department, established and
directed by the wisdom of Parliament, this subject would be brought
within the means of examination and regulation; and many local
improvements, which have been confined to small districts, would be
brought forward, and communicated generally for the public benefit.[7]

Footnote 7:

  Since this Essay was written, I have visited England, and have found,
  on a journey of many hundred miles, scarcely twenty miles of well-made
  road. In many parts of the country, and especially round London, the
  roads are in a shameful condition. This must strike the public; and
  sooner or later the good sense of the English nation will feel the
  necessity of adopting some means of improvement.

                                       EDGEWORTH’S ESSAY, Preface, p. 7.

  In Ireland, the cross roads are generally better than the great roads,
  and comparing all the roads in that country with the roads in England,
  the shameful inferiority of the latter would evidently appear.

                                               EDGEWORTH’S ESSAY, p. 46.


The Author has abstained from any notice of the parish roads; although
their condition and the state of their funds, are more deplorable than
that of the turnpike roads. The Legislative enactments for their
maintenance and repair are so inadequate to the object, that they may be
considered as being placed almost out of the protection of the law.

There can be no apparent good reason, why, such a distinction should be
made between the two description of roads; and their being both placed
under the care of the Commissioners, with the benefit of the scientific
direction of a General Surveyor, would ensure an equal improvement of
the parish roads.


 _The foregoing Remarks on Roads cannot be better concluded than by the
   following Extract from the Report of the Committee of the House of
                           Commons in 1811._

“The many important advantages to be derived from amending the highways
and turnpike roads of the kingdom need hardly be dwelt upon. Every
individual in it would thereby find his comforts materially increased,
and his interest greatly promoted. By the improvement of our roads,
every branch of our agricultural, commercial, and manufacturing industry
would be materially benefited. Every article brought to market would be
diminished in price; the number of horses would be so much reduced, that
by these, and other retrenchments, the expence of FIVE MILLIONS would be
annually saved to the public. The expence of repairing roads, and the
wear and tear of carriages and horses, would be essentially diminished;
and thousands of acres, the produce of which is now wasted in feeding
unnecessary horses, would be devoted to the production of food for man.
In short, the public and private advantages, which would result from
effecting that great object, the improvement of our highways and
turnpike roads, are incalculable; though from their being spread over a
wide surface, and available in various ways, such advantages will not be
so apparent as those derived from other sources of improvement, of a
more restricted and less general nature.”




                               Appendix.




  _Extracts from Observations on the Highways of the Kingdom, by_ JOHN
 LOUDON MᶜADAM, _presented to a Committee of the House of Commons, and
            printed by order of the House, 14th June 1811_.


“In all the Reports of Committees of the House of Commons on the subject
of Roads, they seem to have had principally in view the construction of
wheeled carriages, the weights they were to draw, and the breadth and
form of their wheels; the nature of the roads on which these carriages
were to travel has not been so well attended to.”

“The observations I have made in a period of twenty-six years on the
roads of the kingdom, in which time I have travelled over the greater
number in England and Scotland, and the opportunities I have had of
making comparisons on the different materials and the modes of their
application, have led me to form the following conclusions.”

“1st. That the present bad condition of the roads of the kingdom is
owing to the injudicious application of the materials with which they
are repaired, and to the defective form of the roads.”

“2nd. That the introduction of a better system of making the _surface_
of roads, and the application of scientific principles, which has
hitherto never been thought of, would remedy the evil.”

“In illustration of these positions, I beg to observe, that the object
to be attained in a good road, as far as regards the surface, is to have
it smooth, solid, and so flat as that a carriage may stand upright;
these objects are not attained by the present system, because no
scientific principles are applied; but it is presumed they are perfectly
attainable in all parts of the country.”

“Stone is to be procured in some form in almost every part of the
kingdom, and a road made of small broken stone to the depth of ten
inches, will be smooth, solid and durable.”

“The materials of which the present roads are composed, are not worn
out; but are displaced by the action of the wheels of carriages upon
stones of too large a size: the wheel does not _pass over_ the materials
of which the road is formed, but is constantly, almost at every step,
encountering an obstacle which must either give way and be removed, or
the carriage must be lifted by the force of the cattle so as to surmount
it; in either case the road is injured, and the carriage impeded, and
the injury and impediment will be great in the exact proportion to the
number and size of the obstacles.”

“The size of stones for a road has been described in contracts in
several different ways, sometimes as the size of a hen’s egg, sometimes
at half a pound weight. These descriptions are very vague, the first
being an indefinite size, and the latter depending on the density of the
stone used, and _neither_ being attended to in the execution. The size
of stone used on a road must be in due proportion to the space occupied
by a wheel of ordinary dimensions on a smooth level surface, this point
of contact will be found to be, longitudinally about an inch, and every
piece of stone put into a road, which exceeds an inch in any of its
dimensions, is mischievous.”

“The roads in Scotland are worse than those in England, although,
materials are more abundant, of better quality, and labour at _least_ as
cheap, and the toll duties are nearly double; this is because
road-making, that is the surface, is even worse understood in Scotland
than in England. By a late discussion in Parliament on the subject of
Mail Coaches paying toll, it was universally allowed that the roads in
Scotland were in a deplorable state, and in their circumstances,
bankrupt.”

                  *       *       *       *       *

NOTE.—_It is understood, that the Postmaster-General was obliged to give
up the mail-coach from Glasgow to Ayr, on the road towards Ireland, on
account of the expence of tolls, and the bad condition of the road;
there being ten turnpike gates on thirty-four miles of road._


During nearly five years that the writer has given his whole attention
to the improvement of the Turnpike Roads, experience having confirmed
his ideas on the subject, no endeavours have been spared, to extend the
benefits which have already resulted to the Bristol district, over the
whole country. The very limited means possessed by any individual for
influencing this important branch of domestic economy, has occasioned
frequent attempts to convey instructions for road-making in writing.
This method has never been entirely successful; it being impossible to
acquire a mechanical art without actual practice; or to obtain any just
ideas of it, beyond the first principles, from books.

These principles are, that a road ought to be considered as an
artificial flooring forming a strong, smooth, solid surface, at once
capable of carrying great weight, and over which carriages may pass
without meeting any impediment.




    _Directions for Repair of an old Road, being the substance of a
Communication made to a Committee of the Honourable House of Commons in_
    1811, _and published with the Report by Order of the House, with
additions and alterations, deduced from actual practice during the last
                             three years._


                                                   _1st February, 1819._

No addition of materials is to be brought upon a road, unless in any
part of it be found that there is not a quantity of clean stone equal to
ten inches in thickness.

The stone already in the road is to be loosened up and broken, so as no
piece shall exceed six ounces in weight.

The road is then to be laid as flat as possible, a rise of three inches
from the centre to the side is sufficient for a road thirty feet wide.

The stones when loosened in the road are to be gathered off by means of
a strong heavy rake, with teeth two and a half inches in length, to the
side of the road, and there broken, and on no account are stones to be
broken _on_ the road.

When the great stones have been removed, and none left in the road
exceeding six ounces, the road is to be put in shape and a rake employed
to smooth the surface, which will at the same time bring to the surface
the remaining stone, and will allow the dirt to go down.

When the road is so prepared, the stone that has been broken by the side
of the road is then to be carefully spread on it—this is rather a nice
operation, and the future quality of the road will greatly depend on the
manner in which it is performed. The stone must not be laid on in
shovels full, but scattered over the surface, one shovel full following
another and spreading over a considerable space.

Only a small space of road should be lifted at once; five men in a gang
should be set to lift it _all across_: two men should continue to pick
up and rake off the large stones and to form the road for receiving the
broken stone, the other three should break stones—the broken stone to be
laid on as soon as the piece of road is prepared to receive it, and then
break up another piece; two or three yards at one lift is enough.

The proportioning the work among the five men must of course be
regulated by the nature of the road; when there are many very large
stones, the three breakers may not be able to keep pace with the two men
employed in lifting and forming, and when there are few large stones the
contrary may be the case; of all this the Surveyor must judge and
direct.

But while it is recommended to lift and relay roads which have been made
with large stone, or with large stone mixed with clay, chalk or other
mischievous materials, there are many cases in which it would be highly
unprofitable to lift and relay a road, even if the materials should have
been originally too large.

The road between Cirencester and Bath is made of stone too large in
size, but it is of so friable a nature that in lifting it becomes sand;
in this case I recommended cutting down the high places, keeping the
surface smooth and gradually wearing out the materials now in the road,
and then replacing them with some stone of a better quality properly
prepared.

In like manner a part of the road in the Bath district is made of
freestone which it would be unprofitable to lift.

At Egham in Surrey, it was necessary to remove the whole road to
separate the small portion of valuable materials from the mass of soft
matter of which it was principally composed which was removed at
considerable expence, before a road could be again made upon the site.

Other cases of several kinds have occurred where a different method must
be adopted, but which it is impossible to specify, and must be met by
the practical skill of the Officer whose duty it may be to superintend
the repair of a road, and who must constantly recur to general
principles. These principles are uniform, however much circumstances may
differ, and they must form the guide by which his judgment must be
always directed.

When additional stone is wanted on a road that has consolidated by use,
the old hardened surface of the road is to be loosened with a pick, in
order to make the fresh materials unite with the old.

Carriages, whatever be the construction of their wheels, will make ruts
in a new-made road until it consolidates, however well the materials may
be prepared, or however judiciously applied; therefore a careful person
must attend for some time after the road is opened for use, to rake in
the track made by wheels.

The only proper method of breaking stones, both for effect and economy,
is by persons _sitting_; the stones are to be placed in small heaps, and
women, boys, or old men past hard labour, must sit down with small
hammers and break them, so as none shall exceed six ounces in weight.

_The Tools to be used are,—_

Strong picks, but short from the handle to the point, for lifting the
road.

Small hammers of about one pound weight in the head, the face the size
of a new shilling, well steeled, with a short handle.

Rakes with wooden heads, ten inches in length, and iron teeth about two
and a half inches in length, very strong for raking out the large stones
when the road is broken up, and for keeping the road smooth after being
relaid, and while it is consolidating.

Very light broad-mouthed shovels, to spread the broken stone and to form
the road.

Every road is to be made of broken stone without mixture of earth, clay,
chalk, or any other matter that will imbibe water, and be affected with
frost; nothing is to be laid on the clean stone on pretence of
_binding_; broken stone will combine by its own angles into a smooth
solid surface that cannot be affected by vicissitudes of weather, or
displaced by the action of wheels, which will pass over it without a
jolt, and consequently without injury.




                                PRICES.


The price of lifting a rough road, breaking the stones, forming the
road, smoothing the surface, cleaning out the watercourses, and
replacing the stone, leaving the road in a finished state, has been
found in practice to be from one penny to two-pence per superficial
yard, lifted four inches deep; the variation of price depends on the
greater or lesser quantity of stone to be broken.

At two-pence per yard, a road of six yards wide will cost, therefore,
one shilling per running yard, or 88l. per mile.

Any rough road may be rendered smooth and solid at this price, unless it
be weak and require an addition of stone, or require some very material
alteration of shape.

Breaking stone has been reduced in price by the use of more proper
hammers, and the sitting posture.

The Commissioners at Bristol used to pay fifteen pence per ton for
limestone from Durdham Down, for the use of their roads, and broken to a
size above twenty ounces.—Stone is now procured from the same place,
broken so as none exceed six ounces for ten-pence per ton! and the
workmen are very desirous of contracts at that rate, because the heavy
work is done by the men, the light work with small hammers by the wives
and children, so that whole families are employed.

In Sussex, the proportion is greater between former and present prices;
the breaking of flint cost at one time two shillings per ton, and is now
done, by introducing a better method and fitter tools at one shilling
per ton.

By a more judicious preparation and application of materials the
quantity of stone consumed in roads is decreased, by which a great
saving of expence is made, and with this great advantage, that the
saving is in horse labour of cartage, while the labour price is given to
men, and in such a manner as includes boys from the age of ten upwards,
women and old men past the age of being able to labour hard. The
proportion of men and horse labour in the Bristol district, under the
former management, was

                     One-fourth to men’s labour,
                     Three-fourths to horse labour.

Under a better system of management the proportion has been exactly
reversed: during half a year that an exact account was kept, there was
paid.

             For men’s, women and children’s labour, £3088.
             For horses’ labour                       1035.

This immense advantage is presented in every part of the country, as
roads are confined to no particular place, and are universally in want
of repair: ample funds are already provided for every useful and proper
purpose, although at present misapplied in almost every part of the
kingdom, while the labourers are in want of that employment which it
ought to afford them.




                        TO THE RIGHT HONOURABLE
                             THE PRESIDENT,
                                  AND
                       THE BOARD OF AGRICULTURE.


Having communicated to your Honourable Board, some observations on
making and repairing roads, in February, 1819, I beg leave to add the
following, which have arisen from increased experience on the subject,
and also from a desire of calling your attention to the effects of the
late severe winter on the roads of the country, and the confirmation
afforded to the opinions I have endeavoured to introduce on the
construction of roads.

During the late winter, and particularly in the month of January, 1820,
when the frost was succeeded by a sudden thaw, accompanied by the
melting of snow, the roads of the kingdom broke up in a very alarming
manner, and to an extent that created great loss and inconvenience by
the interruption of communication, and the delay of the mails, and also
occasioned a very heavy extra expenditure by the Post-office.

The obvious cause of this defect of the roads, was the admission of
water from the loose and unskilful method of their construction.
Previous to the severe frost, the roads were filled with water, which
had penetrated through the ill-prepared and unskilfully laid materials:
this caused an immediate expansion of the whole mass during the frost,
and upon a sudden thaw, the roads became quite loose, and the wheels of
carriages penetrated to the original soil, which was also saturated with
water, from the open state of the road. By this means, many roads became
altogether impassable, while the whole were rendered deep and
inconvenient to be travelled upon.

In particular, it was observed, that _all_ the roads of which chalk was
a component part, became, generally, impassable; and even, that the
roads made over chalk soils gave way in most places. This evidently
proceeded from the absorbent quality of chalk, which renders it so
tenacious of water, that I consider its use to be one of the most
dangerous errors in road making. I was induced on former occasions to
recommend particular care in making roads over chalk soils, and to
advise a discontinuance of the practice of mixing chalk, clay, or any
other matter that holds water, with the materials of a road. The
experience of last winter has confirmed this opinion, and has shewn the
ruinous effects of the former method.

Of all the roads which have been thoroughly re-made, according to the
directions which I had the honour to submit to your Honourable Board
last spring, not one has given way, nor has any delay taken place
through the severity of the late season.

As every winter has, in some degree, presented such inconveniences, and
as it has been observed that very severe winters occur in England every
six or seven years, it is of great consequence to consider of the means
of constructing the roads of the kingdom in such a manner as shall
prevent their being in future affected by any change of weather or
season.

The roads can never be rendered thus perfectly secure, until the
following principles be fully understood, admitted, and acted upon:
namely, that it is the native soil which really supports the weight of
traffic: that while it is preserved in a dry state, it will carry any
weight without sinking, and that it does in fact carry the road and the
carriages also; that this native soil must previously be made quite dry,
and a covering impenetrable to rain, must then be placed over it, to
preserve it in that dry state; that the thickness of a road should only
be regulated by the quantity of material necessary to form such
impervious covering, and never by any reference to its _own_ power of
carrying weight.

The erroneous opinion so long acted upon, and so tenaciously adhered to,
that by placing a large quantity of stone under the roads, a remedy will
be found for the sinking into wet clay, or other soft soils, or in other
words, that a road may be made sufficiently strong, _artificially_, to
carry heavy carriages, though the sub-soil be in a wet state, and by
such means to avert the inconveniences of the natural soil receiving
water from rain, or other causes, has produced most of the defects of
the roads of Great Britain.

At one time I had formed the opinion that this practice was only a
useless expence, but experience has convinced me that it is likewise
positively injurious.

It is well known to every skilful and observant road-maker, that if
strata of stone of various sizes be placed as a road, the largest stones
will constantly work up by the shaking and pressure of the traffic, and
that the only mode of keeping the stones of a road from motion, is to
use materials of a uniform size from the bottom. In roads made upon
large stones as a foundation, the perpetual motion, or change of the
position of the materials, keeps open many apertures through which the
water passes.

It has also been found, that roads placed upon a hard bottom, wear away
more quickly than those which are placed upon a soft soil. This has been
apparent upon roads where motives of economy, or other causes, have
prevented the road being lifted to the bottom at once; the wear has
always been found to diminish, as soon as it was possible to remove the
hard foundation. It is a known fact, that a road lasts much longer over
a morass than when made over rock. The evidence produced before the
Committee of the House of Commons, shewed the comparison on the road
between Bristol and Bridgwater, to be as five to seven in favour of the
wearing on the morass, where the road is laid on the naked surface of
the soil, against a part of the same road made over rocky ground.

The practice common in England, and universal in Scotland, on the
formation of a new road, is, to dig a trench below the surface of the
ground adjoining, and in this trench to deposit a quantity of large
stones; after this, a second quantity of stone, broken smaller,
generally to about seven or eight pounds weight; these previous beds of
stone are called the bottoming of the road, and are of various
thickness, according to the caprice of the maker, and generally in
proportion to the sum of money placed at his disposal. On some new
roads, made in Scotland, in the summer of 1819, the thickness exceeded
three feet.

That which is properly called the road, is then placed on the bottoming,
by putting large quantities of broken stone or gravel, generally a foot
or eighteen inches thick, at once upon it.

Were the materials of which the road itself is composed, properly
selected, prepared, and laid, some of the inconveniences of this system
might be avoided; but in the careless way in which this service is
generally performed, the road is as open as a sieve to receive water;
which penetrates through the whole mass, is received and retained in the
trench, whence the road is liable to give way in all changes of weather.

A road formed on such principles has never effectually answered the
purpose which the road-maker should constantly have in view; namely, to
make a secure, level flooring, over which carriages may pass with
safety, and equal expedition, at all seasons of the year.

If it be admitted, as I believe it is now very generally, that in this
kingdom an artificial road is only required to obviate the inconvenience
of a very unsettled climate; and that water with alternate frost and
thaw, are the evils to be guarded against, it must be obvious that
nothing can be more erroneous than providing a reservoir for water under
the road and giving facility to the water to pass through the road into
this trench, where it is acted upon by frost to the destruction of the
road.

As no artificial road can ever be made so good, and so useful as the
natural soil in a _dry state_, it is only necessary to procure, and
preserve this dry state of so much ground as is intended to be occupied
by a road.

The first operation in making a road should be the reverse of digging a
trench. The road should not be sunk below, but rather raised above, the
ordinary level of the adjacent ground, care should at any rate be taken,
that there be a sufficient fall to take off the water, so that it should
always be some inches below the level of the ground upon which the road
is intended to be placed: this must be done, either by making drains to
lower ground, or if that be not practicable, from the nature of the
country, then the soil upon which the road is proposed to be laid, must
be raised by addition, so as to be some inches above the level of the
water.

Having secured the soil from under water, the road-maker is next to
secure it from rain water, by a solid road, made of clean, dry stone, or
flint, so selected, prepared, and laid, as to be perfectly impervious to
water: and this cannot be effected, unless the greatest care be taken,
that no earth, clay, chalk, or other matter, that will hold or conduct
water, be mixed with the broken stone; which must be so prepared and
laid, as to unite by its own angles into a firm, compact, impenetrable
body.

The thickness of such road is immaterial, as to its strength for
carrying weight; this object is already obtained by providing a dry
surface, over which the road is to be placed as a covering, or roof, to
preserve it in that state: experience having shewn, that if water passes
through a road, and fill the native soil, the road, whatever may be its
thickness, loses its support, and goes to pieces.

In consequence of an alteration in the line of the turnpike road, near
Rownham Ferry, in the parish of Ashton, near Bristol, it has been
necessary to remove the old road. This road was lifted and relaid very
skilfully in 1816; since which time it has been in contemplation to
change the line, and consequently, it has been suffered to wear very
thin. At present it is not above three inches thick in most places, and
in none more than four: yet on removing the road it was found, that no
water had penetrated, nor had the frost affected it during all the late
winter; and the natural earth beneath the road was found perfectly dry.

Several new roads have been constructed an this principle within the
last three years. Part of the great north road from London by Hoddesdon
in Hertfordshire—two pieces of road on Durdham Down, and at Rownham
Ferry, near Bristol—with several private roads, in the eastern part of
Sussex.

None of those roads exceed six inches in thickness, and although that on
the great north road is subjected to a very heavy traffic, (being only
fifteen miles distant from London) it has not given way, nor was it
affected by the late severe winter; when the roads between that and
London became impassable, by breaking up to the bottom, and the mails
and other coaches were obliged to reach London by circuitous routes. It
is worthy of observation, that these bad roads cost more money per mile
for their annual repair, than the original making of this useful new
road.

Improvement of roads, upon the principle I have endeavoured to explain,
has been rapidly extended during the last four years. It has been
carried into effect, on various roads, and with every variety of
material, in seventeen different counties. These roads being so
constructed as to exclude water, consequently none of them broke up
during the late severe winter; there was no interruption to travelling,
nor any additional expense by the Post-office in conveying the mails
over them, to the extent of upwards of one thousand miles of road.

Many new roads, and to a considerable extent, are projected for the
ensuing season. Some of them are to be assisted by grants or loans from
government, and it will be a great saving of property, and enable
government to extend their assistance more effectually, if these roads
be made in the most approved and economical manner.

The unnecessary expense attending the making of new roads in the manner
hitherto practised, is one great cause of the present heavy debt upon
the road trusts of the kingdom. The principal part of the large sums
originally borrowed, have been sunk in the useless, and in my opinion,
mischievous preparation, of a foundation. This debt presses heavily on
the funds of all the roads in England, and, in many cases, absorbs
almost their whole revenue in payment of interest. In Scotland this
pressure is still more heavily felt: indeed it is not of uncommon
occurrence in that country, for creditors to lose both principal and
interest of their loans to roads.

This causes not only a great and unnecessary loss in the first instance,
and a deficiency of means for ordinary repair, and maintenance of the
roads, but it also discourages the formation of new roads. Were a better
and more economical system generally adopted and acted upon, many great
additions and improvements of the communications of the country would
take place, from which, at present, the landholders are deterred, by
fear of the extent of the expense, and the difficulty of obtaining loans
of money.

The measure of substituting pavements, for convenient and useful roads,
is a kind of desperate remedy, to which ignorance has had recourse. The
badness, or scarcity of materials, cannot be considered a reasonable
excuse; because the same quantity of stone required for paving, is fully
sufficient to make an excellent road any where: and it must be evident,
that road materials of the best quality may be procured at less cost
than paving stone.

The very bad quality of the gravel round London, combined with want of
skill and exertion, either to obviate its defects, or to procure a
better material, has induced several of the small trusts, leading from
that city, to have recourse to the plan of paving their roads, as far as
their means will admit. Instead of applying their ample funds to obtain
good materials for the roads, they have imported stone from Scotland,
and have paved their roads, at an expense ten times greater than that of
the excellent roads lately made on some of the adjoining trusts. Very
few of these pavements have been so laid as to keep in good order for
any length of time; so that a very heavy expense has been incurred
without any beneficial result, and it is to be lamented that this
wasteful and ineffectual mode is upon the increase in the neighbourhood
of London.

This practice has also been adopted in places where the same motive
cannot be adduced: in Lancashire, almost all the roads are paved at an
enormous cost, and are, in consequence, proverbially bad. At Edinburgh,
where they have the best and cheapest materials in the kingdom, the want
of science to construct good roads, has led the trustees to adopt the
expedient of pavements, to a considerable extent; and at an expense
hardly credible, when compared with what would have been the cost of
roads on the best principles.

The advantages of good roads, when compared with pavements, are
universally acknowledged; the extension of pavement is therefore to be
deprecated as an actual evil, besides the greatness of the expence.
Pavements are particularly inconvenient and dangerous on steep ascents,
such as the ascent to bridges, &c. A very striking example of this may
be observed on the London end of Blackfriars Bridge, where heavy loads
are drawn up with great difficulty, and where more horses fall and
receive injury, than in any other place in the kingdom. The pavement in
such places should be lifted, and converted into a good road; which may
be done with the same stone, at an expense not exceeding ten-pence per
square yard. This road would be more lasting than the pavement, and,
when out of order, may be repaired at less than one-tenth of the expense
which relaying the pavement would require.

This measure has been adopted with great success, and considerable
saving of expense, in the suburbs of Bristol, where the pavements were
taken up, and converted into good roads, about three years ago.

The advantages of the system recommended is so obvious to common
observation in the repair of old roads, and has been practised to an
extent so considerable, during the last four years, that the minds of
most people have become reconciled to it; and objections, founded on old
prejudice and suspicion, have given way to experience, but the
application of the same principles to the construction of new roads, has
necessarily been much more limited. It will, therefore, require more
liberality and confidence on the part of country gentlemen, and also
more patient investigation of the principles on which the system is
founded, before they will allow of its adoption on new lines of road. It
is to be hoped, however, that the importance of the subject will
recommend it to general consideration.




                                 REPORT
                                FROM THE
                            SELECT COMMITTEE
                                 ON THE
                        HIGHWAYS OF THE KINGDOM:
                           TOGETHER WITH THE
                          MINUTES OF EVIDENCE
                           TAKEN BEFORE THEM.




                                REPORT.


  The Select Committee appointed to take into consideration the Acts now
    in force regarding the TURNPIKE ROADS and HIGHWAYS in ENGLAND and
    WALES, and the expediency of additional Regulations for their better
    repair and preservation, and to report their Observations thereupon
    from time to time to the House; and to whom the Petitions of Joseph
    D. Bassett, John Richards Reed, and John Martin; and of several
    Trustees of Turnpike Roads in the Counties of Middlesex, Kent,
    Surrey, and Sussex, were referred;—HAVE, pursuant to the Orders of
    the House, examined the matters to them referred, and have agreed
    upon the following REPORT:

Your Committee considered it their indispensable duty to direct their
first attention to the Reports of former Committees, appointed to
investigate the same important subject; in these Reports, as well as in
the documents subjoined to them, are to be found much scientific
information, and many valuable suggestions, which have doubtless tended
to aid the progress of improvement in the art of making and preserving
roads. Still the object of amending the laws which relate to them has
been unattained, the bills introduced with a partial view to that
purpose having been lost in their progress through Parliament, and the
suggestions for more general improvements having been allowed to remain
without further notice.

If your Committee may be permitted to assign the probable reasons of
this discouraging result of the labours of their predecessors, they
would venture to suggest, that too wide a field of inquiry was taken to
lead to immediate practical benefit: that some of the systems most
confidently recommended were of a novel and speculative nature; that the
regulations which it was proposed to found on them too strongly affected
the interests of vested property; and that even the most valuable
information communicated to the House rested upon ingenious theories,
which had then been very partially, if at all, reduced to practice, or
submitted to fair experiment.

As the considerations which influenced the appointment of the present
Committee, avowedly sprang from the successful trial of an improved
system of making roads, your Committee have judged it right to institute
a particular examination into all the circumstances of that experiment,
and the various instances in which the example has been followed.

Mr. John Loudon MᶜAdam having for many years directed his attention, as
a magistrate and a commissioner, to the improvement of roads, was
induced to accept the situation of general surveyor of an extensive
trust round the city of Bristol.

The admirable state of repair into which the roads under his direction
were brought, attracted very general attention; and induced the
commissioners of various districts to apply for his assistance or
advice.

The general testimony borne to his complete success wherever he has been
employed, and the proof that his improvements have been attended with an
actual reduction of expense, while they have afforded the most useful
employment to the poor, induce your Committee to attach a high degree of
importance to that which he has already accomplished. The imitation of
his plans is rendered easy by their simplicity, and by the candour with
which he has explained them, though ability in the surveyor to judge of
their application must be understood as an essential requisite.

Your Committee have dwelt on this improved system of making roads, as a
preliminary consideration to any alteration of the laws, being persuaded
that it is of essential importance to adapt the law to new
circumstances; that the first step requisite is to take effectual
measures for ensuring the _formation_ of good roads; and that their
preservation afterwards, if proper principles for their repair be once
adopted, will require fewer legislative regulations than former
inquirers have deemed necessary.

For a full elucidation of the methods pursued by Mr. MᶜAdam your
Committee beg leave to refer to his evidence in the Appendix annexed, as
well as to that of his son, and of different Commissioners who had
witnessed the success of his plans.

But though your Committee have limited their first inquiries to the
actual state of the turnpike roads, and the results of recent plans for
their improvement, they have by no means confined their researches to
the operations or the opinions of one individual. In the evidence which
they subjoin will be found, in the first place, a description of the
present general defects of the turnpike roads, given by those whose
employments and interest render them best acquainted with the nature and
extent of the evil; and this exposition is followed not only by the
detail of Mr. MᶜAdam’s system, already alluded to, but by the evidence
of other eminent surveyors and civil engineers, under whose
superintendence the latest and most perfect improvements have been
effected.

Your Committee consider that high praise is due to the superior science
exhibited by Mr. Telford, in tracing and forming the new roads in North
Wales; but they contented themselves with a general inquiry into his
plans, aware that their merits would be particularly brought under the
eye of the House in the Reports of the Committee on the Holyhead Roads.

The concurrent testimony of all the witnesses examined by your Committee
establishes the fact that the general state of the turnpike roads in
England and Wales is extremely defective, but at the same time proves
that proper management is alone wanted to effect the most desirable
reformation. It is not the least interesting result of the researches of
your Committee, that the most improved system is demonstrated to be the
most economical; that even the first effectual repair of a bad road may
be accomplished with little, if any, increase of expenditure; and that
its future preservation in good order will, under judicious management,
be attended with a considerable annual saving to the public.

There is no point upon which a more decided coincidence of opinion
exists amongst all those who profess what may now be called the science
of road-making, than that the first effectual step towards general
improvement must be the employment of persons of superior ability and
experience as superintending surveyors.

Your Committee, fully concurring in this opinion, have anxiously
considered in what manner this object can be attained with the least
expense to the country, and the least injurious or offensive
interference with existing customs and authorities.

Various are the plans which have been brought under their consideration
for altering the general constitution of the laws affecting the
management of Turnpike Roads, proposing either to annex the
superintendence and patronage to some of the existing departments of
Government, or to constitute a new Board of Commissioners expressly for
this object.

Your Committee forbear to detail the reasons which induce them to
withhold their recommendation from any of these plans, whatever
advantages they might afford in unity or vigour of management.

They are of opinion, that many important reasons exist for leaving
generally the direction of the affairs of the different turnpike trusts
in the hands of their respective Commissioners, whose experience,
character and interest, afford the best pledges of ability, attention
and economy. If your Committee think it necessary to propose, in one
respect, an interference with their appointments, it by no means
proceeds from any distrust of their judgment or integrity.

The duties of a head surveyor demand suitable education and talents.
These qualifications must be fairly remunerated; and it is evident, that
the limited extent of the funds of Turnpike Trusts, in general, do not
afford the means of paying to such an officer an adequate salary. The
difficulty might in many instances be obviated by voluntary
associations, but where the system is wished to be universal, it ought
not to be left to so precarious a dependence.

The plan to which your Committee, after full consideration, are disposed
to give the preference, is that of empowering the magistrates of every
county, assembled in quarter sessions, to appoint one or more surveyors
general, who shall have the superintendence and management of the
turnpike roads within the county, under the authority and direction of
the Commissioners of the different trusts. It is not necessary at
present to enter on the detailed regulations by which the executive
duties of such an officer should be prescribed, so as to keep them under
the deliberative control of the Commissioners, whose meetings he should
attend, and to whom he should uniformly report on the improvements and
alterations he may wish to recommend within their trusts.

Your Committee are of opinion, that the most eligible mode of paying the
salary of this officer would be by an uniform rate per mile upon all the
roads within the county; to be fixed by the magistrates at quarter
sessions, and paid from the funds of the respective trusts.

The success of this plan of appointing general county surveyors will, in
a great degree, depend upon the firmness evinced by the magistrates, in
laying aside every consideration of personal favour, and impartially
looking to integrity, talents, and energy of character, as the
recommendations for office; some skill in the science of an engineer
should also be regarded as a valuable qualification.

Your Committee have manifested their general disinclination to any
interference with the honourable and gratuitous discharge of the
functions of the Commissioners of Turnpike Trusts; in one instance,
however, they are disposed to depart from the principle which they have
recommended. A full consideration of the evidence relative to the
defective state, and injudicious management of the roads round the
Metropolis, and of the advantages which would accrue from a
consolidation of the numerous small Trusts into which they are most
inconveniently divided, induce your Committee to express to the House
their strong recommendation, that a special Act of Parliament may be
passed for uniting all the Trusts within a distance of about ten miles
round London under one set of Commissioners. It is to these roads that
the heaviest complaints made by the coachmasters, and the surveyor of
mail coaches under the post-office, principally apply; and whether an
improvement is to be effected by the importation of flint, and other
common materials, or by laying granite pavement in the centre or sides
of the roads, it is evident that, “the measure to be performed in an
economical and efficient manner, must be done upon an extended scale it
must become one interest, directed by one select body of men, of weight,
ability, and character.”

It is the object of the recommendation of your Committee to render the
roads round the Metropolis a pattern for the kingdom, by the
introduction of the most judicious system of formation and repair, which
will thus be brought under general inspection; and the spirit of
improvement, radiating from this centre, may be expected to spread with
rapidity throughout the country, and to diffuse “those incalculable
public and private advantages,” which a former Committee anticipated
from the accomplishment of this great national object.

Your Committee are deeply sensible of the consideration due to the
persons whose property is invested in the funds of these Trusts, as well
as to those who now act as Commissioners. They are perfectly aware of
the jealousy with which the House may view any proposition for the
creation of new offices of patronage and profit; and they do not
disguise their conviction, that it will be found expedient to remunerate
those efficient Commissioners who are expected to devote their time to
the performance of active duties.

Your Committee however anticipate, that if the House shall approve the
formation of a Board of Commissioners for this object, they will deem it
proper to place at its head some persons of eminent station and
character, as a security for the independence and respectability of its
proceedings.

All these considerations certainly require cautious deliberation, and
delicacy in arranging the plan; but your Committee feel confident that
the wisdom and judgment of the House will find the means of surmounting
the difficulties, without injustice, or hazardous innovation.

It is obvious, that the formation of this distinct central authority
will be best effected by the introduction of a separate Bill, while the
plan of empowering the magistrates to appoint county surveyors would
naturally form part of a general Bill for amending the laws relating to
Turnpike Roads.

Your Committee have weighed, with much attention, the comparative
advantages of an attempt to amend these laws by supplemental enactments,
and of the comprehensive plan of endeavouring to embody in one Act of
Parliament all that is valuable in the old laws, with the addition of
such new regulations as are acknowledged to be desirable.

The Committee of 1811 were impressed with the expedience of “combining
the old and new regulations into one general code, divided into two
branches, one regarding the Highways, and the other regarding Turnpike
Roads,” though they considered that “it would require more time and
labour than those who have not had some experience in the drawing up of
such laws can be at all aware of.”

“Your Committee do not hesitate to avow their opinion, that unless this
task, however arduous be accomplished, the laws relating to roads must
remain in an incomplete, uncertain, and inconvenient state. They cannot
doubt that the House will agree with them that the promotion of such a
measure is deserving of legal assistance on the part of his Majesty’s
government, to those who are disposed to apply their time and attention
to the undertaking; and they indulge the hope, that if the House shall
think fit to reappoint a Committee for the same object in the next
session of Parliament, much may be found done for the preparation of
such a bill.”

Your Committee themselves have not been inattentive to many of the
amendments which they think it ought to embrace, some of which they
proceed to particularize for the consideration of those members whose
attention may be drawn to the subject of this Report.

There is no object which appears more deserving of regulation than the
expense attending the passing and renewing of Turnpike Acts. This might
be lessened by comprising in a general Act such customary clauses as are
applicable to all trusts, and by dispensing with the attendance of
witnesses in London to prove the notices required by the orders of the
House; but a still greater advantage would be gained by extending the
period of the duration of these Acts, and providing for their renewal
without the payment of fees.

A general commutation for statute labour appears to be required, both
for public advantage and private convenience. The amount of composition
might be levied as a rate; and it will become a subject of
consideration, whether some better principle may not be laid down for
apportioning the money thus collected between the highways and turnpike
roads.

The advantage of authorizing parish officers to contract with the
commissioners for the repair of the roads passing through the parish by
labourers belonging to it, has been strongly pressed on the attention of
your Committee, but though they are disposed to admit that such a system
may often afford desirable relief to the parishes, they are not equally
satisfied that it will have a tendency to promote the improvement of the
roads. They think it right to bring the proposition under the
consideration of the House, though they are too diffident of its utility
to venture to add to it their recommendation.

It seems generally admitted, that the present exemptions from toll
granted to broad-wheeled waggons require to be revised, as the enormous
weights which they carry render them more destructive to the materials
of the roads than their supposed advantage in consolidating them can
compensate. Without entering into the yet unsettled controversy
respecting the superior utility of conical, barrelled, or cylindrical
wheels, for the purpose of draught, it is perfectly evident, that the
narrow part of the surface upon which wheels of the two first
descriptions meet the ground, cannot give them the advantage of the
roller. As soon as impolitic exemptions shall be abolished, and the
tolls be regulated upon all carts and waggons, with wheels of a moderate
width, in proportion either to the weight carried, or the number of
horses, there will no longer be the same temptation to carry excessive
loads; and it is probable that a new practice, regulated by private
interest, may render it unnecessary to limit the weight allowed to be
taken.

Some regulations appear to be absolutely required in respect to the
conduct of tollkeepers, and the liability of renters, for the penalties
imposed on their servants.

Your Committee have thus noticed a few of those objects of amendment
which have presented themselves to their consideration. To reduce these
and other proposed improvements into proper form—to digest the various
provisions of former Acts—to expunge what is useless or injurious,—to
reconcile what is contradictory—to re-model and arrange what is sound
and useful, will require the assistance of the best legal judgment. Your
Committee however, after having thus availed themselves of the power
granted by the house, of reporting the partial result of their
investigations, will continue to make such inquiries, and to collect
such materials, as may pave the way for the accomplishment of that
important undertaking.

It will at once be seen, that they have confined themselves to one
branch of the work committed to them, having conceived it to be more
judicious not to distract their own attention and that of the House by
too many subjects of inquiry, but to pursue that which they first
undertook to a practical result.

Should the House adopt their recommendation of renewing the Committee in
another session, the subject of the Highways will naturally engage their
attention as soon as they shall have fully matured the plan for amending
the laws relating to the Turnpike Roads.

 25th _June_, 1819.




                          MINUTES OF EVIDENCE.




                               WITNESSES:


                     Martis, 2º die Martii, 1819:

       _Charles Johnson, Esq._                             p. 81
       _Mr. William Waterhouse_                               84
       _Mr. William Horne_                                    88
       _Mr. John Eames_                                       92


                        Veneris, 21º die Maij:

       _Mr. George Botham_                                    94


                         Jovis, 4º die Martij:

       _John Loudon MᶜAdam, Esq._                             96


                        Martis, 9º die Martij:

       _John Loudon MᶜAdam, Esq._                            117


                        Jovis, 11º die Martij:

       _John Loudon MᶜAdam, Esq._                            134
       _James McAdam, Esq._                                  136
       _Col. Charles Brown_                                  144
       _Ezekiel Harman, Esq._                                145
       _Thomas Bridgeman, Esq._                              146
       _John Martin Cripps, Esq._                        _ibid._
       _W. Dowdeswell, Esq._                                 148


                        Martis, 23º die Martij:

       _Mr. Benjamin Farey_                                  150
       _John Farey, Esq._                                    154


                        Jovis, 25º die Martij:

       _John Farey, Esq._                                    157
       _James Walker, Esq._                                  165


                        Jovis, 1º die Aprilis:

       _Mr. James Dean_                                      182


                          Jovis, 6º die Maij:

       _Thomas Telford, Esq._                                187


                         Martis, 11º die Maij:

       _Mr. Robert Perry_                                    195


       Abstract of Return of Turnpike Roads round London     196




                          MINUTES OF EVIDENCE.




                     _Martis, 2º die Martij, 1819._
                       EDWARD PROTHEROE, ESQUIRE,
                             In the Chair.


          _Charles Johnson_, Esquire, called in; and Examined.

You are surveyor and superintendent of mail coaches under the Post
Master General?—Yes.

How long have you held that office?—Not twelve months yet.

Has your attention been directed, in the execution of the duties of that
office, to the state of the turnpike roads throughout the kingdom?—I
have given a general attention to the subject, and I have had occasion,
of course, to give particular attention to it, when complaints have been
made of loss of time.

In what state of repair do you consider the turnpike roads to be,
generally throughout the kingdom?—I certainly (as far as I have had an
opportunity of inspecting them) consider, that almost all the roads
might be improved; but there are very few instances in which I should
have thought it necessary to advise the Post Master General to
interfere, except in the more immediate neighbourhood of London.

It is not the practice of the Post-office to interfere in the mode you
mention, by indictment, unless the evil has arisen to a very great
pitch?—Not until it has arisen to a very considerable evil.

Do you consider that the general defective state of the road arises from
any local disadvantages, or from mismanagement in regard to the funds,
or the application of materials?—That question involves so many
considerations, that I hardly know how to give an answer to it; but I
think, that in general one may observe a great want of that skill in
forming the road and keeping it in repair, which is very obvious in some
parts of the country.

Do you consider that the defects you have mentioned in the neighbourhood
of London, arise from any local disadvantages, or from the roads been
worse managed?—It is generally understood that in the neighbourhood of
London they have not so good materials to repair the roads with, being
chiefly gravel; but I think I may say, that there is certainly a want of
attention and of care.

Have you known instances in the neighbourhood of London where better
roads have been obtained by superior management?—In the early part of
the winter we were under such great difficulties with respect to the
Exeter mail coach, that I was under the necessity of applying to the
Egham trust. It was at that time reported to me, that the whole town of
Egham had been covered with gravel unsifted, eight or nine inches deep
from side to side; the consequence of that was, that the mail coach lost
ten, fifteen, or twenty minutes every night. We were given afterwards to
understand that the commissioners had put that particular road under the
care of Mr. MᶜAdam, and at this time I have no sort of occasion whatever
to complain of it.

Generally speaking, do you consider that the mails are detained more by
the bad state of the roads in the neighbourhood of London than
elsewhere?—They certainly have more difficulty in passing to and from
London for the first fifty or sixty miles, than in almost any other part
of the country. It is in the nights we have the heaviest weights, and
therefore it is very desirable that the roads near town should be rather
better, than worse than others.

Has your attention been particularly directed to the state of the roads
in other parts of the kingdom lately?—I travelled a considerable
distance last autumn in the north of England. Certainly I considered the
roads that I passed over there, to be very superior in general to what
they are in the first hundred miles from the metropolis. Subsequently to
that, I have had occasion to travel throughout North Wales, and I gave
particular attention to the Holyhead line of road.

By what road?—By Coventry. The roads which are found in North Wales are
remarkably good, and in my humble opinion, show great science in the
formation of them. The new roads I mean. The materials in that country
are of course very good. On this side of Birmingham, which is also the
road to Liverpool, there is great occasion to complain, particularly
from Dunchurch to Daventry. At this time that road is in a very
neglected state, very heavy, narrow, and blocked up by banks of drift. I
have had occasion to apply to that trust, but I do not learn that any
thing has been done.

Have you found the system of indictment afford any effectual remedy for
the evils which you have had cause to observe in that way?—I think we
have. But there have been very few indictments preferred for some years
past; the postmaster general not thinking it right to press upon the
districts during the season of agricultural distress. I should say, we
do not consider that any reason, at present, for abstaining.

Have you experienced from the commissioners, a disposition, generally,
to attend to such complaints as you have found occasion to make?—Such
applications as I have had occasion to make appear to have been very
well received; but I cannot say, that in many instances the roads have
been much improved. I will add to this answer, that I lately passed over
the road from Oxford through Henley to London; and although that is one
of the roads complained much of, it is certainly, at this time, in a
very improper state.

In such cases do you not follow up your measures by stronger
proceedings, by indictment?—I think that in this case it would be
necessary to renew our applications, and perhaps to proceed by
indictment; but I have considered it prudent not to interfere, chiefly
in contemplation of the proceedings of this Committee.

From what you have seen of the new roads in Wales, do you not conceive
that nearly all the turnpike roads in England are capable of very
considerable improvement, by an application of equal skill in the
disposition of the materials employed upon them?—I certainly do.


           Mr. _William Waterhouse_, called in; and Examined.

You keep the Swan-with-two-Necks in Lad-lane?—I belong to the premises;
I don’t keep the house; I am the coachmaster.

You are the proprietor of many mail and other coaches?—I am.

As the proprietor of mail and stage coaches, has your attention been
directed to the state of the roads over which they travel?—Yes, it has.

Inform the Committee whether you think the roads are in such a state of
repair as they might be, under proper management, with the advantages
they possess?—Taking them generally, I think they are not.

Do you consider that the amount of the tolls at present received would
be sufficient to place them in a state of good repair, under proper
management?—From what information I have been able to obtain of the sums
which the gates are let for upon several trusts, it is my opinion that
the money so received is quite sufficient to put them in a very good
state. For instance, there is one trust, which is called the Daventry
trust, leading from Old Stratford to Dunchurch; their tolls, I
understand, produce more than 100_l._ a mile per annum. Very little
improvement has been made in that trust; and the roads are very unsafe,
and in a bad condition altogether.

Do you consider that that arises from want of proper materials, or want
of proper skill in making use of them?—From both. The materials that
they have in that neighbourhood, in my opinion, are not good; and the
people that they employ upon the roads are not equal to the task, and
therefore they are very much neglected. The surveyors and the men that
work under them are insufficient.

Do you know of any instances where similar disadvantages have been
surmounted by proper skill and ingenuity?—I believe I can state that
upon one particular trust that has been the case. I believe they call it
the Hockliffe trust. It is but a short distance, but very great
improvements have been made upon it. The great improvements that have
been made there, I am informed by several of the commissioners, have
been done through their skilful and attentive surveyors. They have
improved that trust very much indeed. I believe I can mention another
road out of London that has been much improved, I mean the Essex road,
(their surveyor being a clever man, and competent to understand his
business,) between Whitechapel church and Brentwood.

Are there any particular defects in the management of the roads
generally, which you think might be remedied, that you can point out to
the Committee?—In the first place, there may be great improvements by
the proper formation of the roads. I know, in some places, particularly
from here down to Colney, where there is a clayey bottom, and upon that
line of road there are a great many land springs; those springs
frequently work up through the gravel, and injure the road very
materially. When that is the case I consider that they should
under-drain the road, and take away these land springs, which would be
the means of having the roads firm and hard, much harder than they are
now.

Is it not a common defect to place the gravel on the road without being
sufficiently sifted or washed?—Very much so.

Do you not consider it as a bad system, likewise, to place the gravel so
much in the centre of the road, thereby rendering it of too great
convexity?—Yes, certainly. I think it is laid generally too thick and
too high in the middle. There is no necessity for the roads being
rounded so much.

Have you known any accidents to have arisen from the steepness of the
road?—Yes; several accidents with my coaches, as well as those of other
people, in consequence of the road being laid so very high in the
middle.

Is not that shape of the road likewise attended with a disadvantage in
the draft of the carriage?—I consider it so, inasmuch as it flings the
weight too much on one side.

Is not a great loss sustained by the proprietors of stage coaches, in
consequence of the badness of the roads, in the wearing out of their
horses?—Yes; particularly so the first fifty or sixty miles from London.

With regard to the performance of time by the mail coaches, do you find
that you labour under greater difficulty on the roads near London, than
on those at a greater distance from town?—I am certain we do. It
requires a greater quantity of horses to perform the duty, and, in my
opinion, it requires ten horses to perform the same number of miles for
the first fifty out of London, that might be done by eight, with the
same speed, beyond that distance.

Is there any difference in the value of the horses used near town and at
a distance from it?—I can buy horses at 15_l._ a piece that will perform
the duty, at a distance from London, equal to those that we are obliged
to give 30_l._ a piece for, on the average, for the work near town.

Are you in the habit of working coaches to a greater than fifty miles
from London?—Not at this time; I have worked coaches as far as one
hundred miles distance from London, and I always found there that eight
horses would perform as many miles as ten, the first fifty miles out of
London.

Have not the tolls very much increased of late years under new acts of
parliament?—It is my opinion that the tolls generally have doubled
within these last fifteen years.

Have the roads improved in any degree in the same proportion?—No, they
have not.

Have you calculated the average rate per mile which a coach with four
horses pays for toll?—I have: It is my opinion that the average amount
throughout the kingdom is 3½_d._ per mile; it was above 3_d._ when I
took them above twelve months ago.

Do you find that the horses wear out in a much shorter space of time, in
working coaches within the first fifty miles from London, than they do
lower down?—Yes they do very much. We calculate that our stock of
horses, employed in working the first fifty miles out of London, will
not last more than four years; in the country, at a greater distance, I
believe they calculate that their stock, on an average, will last six
years.

Are you not frequently obliged to put six horses to your coaches, on the
roads from London?—Sometimes that is the case; we do work with six
horses where the roads are bad and heavy. I may say, from the knowledge
I have of one particular road, namely, from London to Birmingham, it
requires twelve horses to perform the same number of miles as eight
horses will do between Birmingham and Holyhead.

How many coach-horses do you keep?—About four hundred.

Are you acquainted with the new roads in North Wales, made by Mr.
Telford?—Yes, I am.

Do you think that three of your horses would draw the Holyhead mail as
easily on those roads as four of them do the same coach on any part of
the road from London to Dunchurch?—I have no doubt about it.

Does that arise from the construction of the road, or nature of the
materials, or both?—Both. The construction of the new road is
extraordinarily good, and the materials also are very good.

Can you state what particular construction those roads are of?—They are
laid in a form sufficiently round to wash themselves, if there is a
shower of rain that comes upon them. They are not very high; and their
excellence consists in the smallness of the convexity. They are in the
best form I have ever seen roads made.


             Mr. _William Horne_, called in; and Examined.

You keep the Golden Cross Inn, Charing Cross?—Yes.

You are the proprietor of many mail and stage coaches?—I am.

Your attention of course has been directed to the state of the roads
over which they travel?—It has.

Can you inform the Committee in what state the roads generally are, in
point of goodness?—I think in general they have been better for the last
seven years than formerly, though they are now bad. They are generally
bad, and might be very much improved.

Can you state to the Committee any particular instances of improvement
that have taken place within your own knowledge?—Yes; one between London
and Hounslow, which must be known to every body to have been very bad;
that road has been made good, which was extremely bad before.

Do you consider that the application of the materials upon that road is
at present good?—Yes. It is the better construction of the road,
together with the different materials from what they used formerly,
which have been the means of making that road better. They have brought
chalk and flints from Kent by the canal, and have got them at as small
an expense as gravel; and these have formed a hard well-bound road,
which was formerly bad.

Upon what other roads do your coaches travel?—I will mention one which
is precisely the contrary, the Uxbridge road.

Gravel is usually employed on that?—Solely gravely and the road is very
flat. It is made lower than the fields, which draws the water upon it,
and therefore it cannot be drawn off from it. That is the chief cause of
the road being so bad.

Is it not the practice upon that road to pile up the scrapings or drift
by the side of the road?—It is.

Within your experience, do you consider that the goodness of the roads
is at all in proportion to the local advantages or disadvantages; or
have you found that the skill and experience of the surveyors employed
upon them have effected particular improvements?—They chiefly depend
upon having good surveyors. The Dover road will show that more than any
other road I know of. I can remember that within these seven years, what
was then called “The Sun in the Sands” has been made a very good road.
That road was all loose and sandy: they have drained it, and it is now a
very good road.

Can you state under whose superintendence that road is placed?—Mr.
Collis’s. He is now employed on the Brighton road, effecting the same
sort of improvement; reducing hills, and making the road good.

Do you find that the roads on which your coaches travel, are much worse
in the neighbourhood of London than the more distant parts?—I find them
worse for coaches near London, but it may be attributed partly to the
greater quantity of travelling near London to what there is in the
country.

Are the horses that you employ in the stages near London of superior
value to those that are employed at a greater distance?—It differs
according to the carriage. I think with the stage coaches, the horses
out of London are considerably more in value than those employed at a
greater distance from London; and as to mail coaches, _vice versa_. In
the country, the day stock of the coaches is very good, but in the night
they work them very badly.

Do you find that your horses that are employed in the stages near
London, wear out sooner than those at a greater distance?—Much sooner, I
should think. I employ about four hundred horses myself, and I am sure I
buy one hundred and fifty a year to support the number, and keep the
stock in order. I consider that my stock wears out fully in three years.

How much longer on an average, will horses last at a distance from
town?—I should think double the time: for these reasons; first, the work
is lighter, and next, the food is better; besides which, the lodging of
them is better; the stables are airy and more healthy; they have not so
often diseases in the country as we have in London.

Are you in the habit of working coaches to any great distance from
London?—I work them half way to Bristol; with Mr. Pickwick of Bath, I
work to Newbury.

Do you know whether the horses that are employed still lower down upon
that road, are considered to have lighter or heavier work?—I should not
keep larger horses for that work myself; I should keep short-legged
horses, because of the hills.

Which are of less value?—Yes.

Speaking generally, if the same skill and management that you have
mentioned in particular districts were generally employed, do you not
think that the roads of England and Wales might be put into a very
perfect state of repair?—I think, that with better direction as to
management, they might be put into a much better state of repair, at the
same cost, than they now are. There is a road, called the North-east
Road (the way that the Edinburgh mail comes,) which is much improved
lately, and without any great expense.

Under whose management is that road?—Of a Mr. Clay. It has been done by
rolling the road, and breaking the gravel to a certain size, not putting
it on too large or too small; and taking care to turn the road well. If
the road is not turned well, it never will be good.

This roller is a late invention, is it not?—It is. It impresses the
gravel, or whatever the material is, into the ground, before the road is
scraped; then they proceed to scrape it and take the slush off; this
rolls down the ruts as well.

And from your experience, you have every reason to believe that it is of
great advantage to the road?—I have worked the Tyburn road, and the
White Cross roads, which were as bad as the Tyburn till this practice
has been introduced.

Do you know any thing of the Reading road, which Mr. MᶜAdam has had the
superintendence of?—It is a very fair road; it is the best piece of road
in that direction.

Can you inform the Committee the weights you are accustomed to carry
upon the different descriptions of carriages, mail coaches, post
coaches, and heavy coaches?—The post coach loaded is 38 cwt. weight; it
is never more than two tons. The mail coach also is not more than two
tons, I should think. As to heavy coaches, I only work two of that
description out of the 40 coaches that are in my own yard; they are so
little used, that they don’t generally weigh more than the post coach;
they don’t carry so much luggage.

What is the weight of the heavy coach?—Not more than the post, because
they don’t carry so much luggage as some of the post coaches. I reckon
12 passengers one ton, coach one ton, and luggage half a ton.

Have you known of any accidents to your coaches arising from the great
convexity of the roads in the neighbourhood of London?—I have had
accidents, and they have sometimes been attributed to the horses shying,
and plunging the coach on one side, so as to cause it to overturn, from
the great roundness of the road.


               Mr. _John Eames_, called in; and Examined.

You keep the White Horse, Fetter-lane, and are the proprietor of the
Angel Inn, St. Clement’s?—Yes.

You are the proprietor of several mail and stage coaches?—Yes.

How many horses do you keep?—About three hundred.

What are the principal roads you are in the habit of working from
London?—We work the Canterbury, the Cambridge, the Dover, the Norwich,
the Portsmouth, and some others.

Do you find that you sustain much inconvenience from the state of the
roads over which you travel?—Yes. As to inconvenience, I find much more
in the neighbourhood of London than the more distant parts.

How long do you find that your horses upon an average last, that are
employed in the first stages from London?—My horses, upon an average,
don’t last above three years in the fast coaches.

Including the mails?—Yes.

And those horses in the neighbourhood of London, are of greater value
than those employed at a distance?—They are.

Upon an average, how long do the horses last that are employed in the
more distant parts?—They last as long again.

Do you attribute that in a great degree to the badness of the roads in
the neighbourhood of London?—I attribute it to the distress the horse
receives from the badness of the roads near town; but I attribute it
also in a great degree to the meeting of different carriages, and
crossing the road, which makes it more laborious to the horse, though he
does not appear to go so many miles.

Do you not consider that that particular evil is occasioned in a great
degree by the convexity of the roads in the neighbourhood of London, the
materials being generally heaped up in the middle?—I do; it “tears their
hearts out,” as the coachmen express it. The roads are inconvenient from
the quantity and quality of the gravel heaped in the middle.

Have you known any instances in which a different system has been
pursued, and the roads greatly improved, in the neighbourhood of
London?—The road from London to Cranford Bridge has been improved of
late, and from London to Hounslow more particularly, in consequence of
the pavement in the crown of the road, which has done away with the
gravelling, or shingle rather.

Is not the gravel upon that road generally employed without sifting or
washing?—It is half clay.

Have you known instances in which this inconvenience has been remedied
by superior skill and experience in the surveyor of the roads?—Yes; in
the same line of road that Mr. Horne referred to; in the Kent road
particularly.

If that same skill was employed in the application of materials to the
other roads, do you not think that they might be brought generally to
the same state of improvement?—I have no doubt of it; there is no
question about it. The Surrey road has been improved on the same
principle.

What do you call the Surrey road?—From London to Guildford.

Do you know under whose management that is?—I don’t know now; a person
named Baker had the management of it.

Was it under him it was improved?—Yes.

How many miles of road does that consist of?—Thirty miles.

And it is very much improved?—Yes.

By what means?—The materials are harder than the gravel. He brings the
rag flints and breaks them, but in a different manner from other parts
of the road. He has improved it so much, that it does not look the same
road at all; I can go now sixteen miles better than I could twelve
before.

Do you consider that the horses which travel these roads that have been
improved, last longer than formerly?—Yes.

You need hardly be asked whether these improvements enable you to carry
passengers at a lower rate than before?—Of course; it is the expense of
the stock that is the great thing.

If the roads were generally improved, travelling would be cheaper?—Of
course.




                     _Veneris, 21º die Maii, 1819._


             Mr. _George Botham_, called in; and Examined.

You keep the George Inn, at Newbury?—I do.

Are you a proprietor of mail and other coaches?—Yes.

To a considerable extent?—Yes, and have been for some time.

How many horses have you?—More than a hundred.

Your attention has of course been directed to the state of the road
between Newbury and London?—Yes.

State any improvement that has taken place in that road?—There is a very
great improvement between Marlborough and Twyford.

Under whose directions?—Mr. MᶜAdam.

In what state was that road before?—It was in a very bad state, and I
mentioned it to lord Aylesbury, and he applied to get the materials, and
offered to give up any quantity of his land for the widening of the
road, which he has done.

In point of fact the road has been widened?—Much widened and much
improved.

Can you state what improvement it would make in the draught of the
carriages?—Not exactly, but I consider it a very great one.

You cannot state any proportion of the labour of horses in drawing a
carriage?—No, not particularly so; I did not expect to be asked, but it
is not very material.

In what state is that road, compared with the road from Twyford to
London?—I consider the road from Twyford to be a little mended, but it
is very bad at present.

Do you think by the adoption of the same system the road from Twyford to
London might be equally improved?—I have no doubt of it; the materials
are better.

Which of course would make a great difference in the ease of working
your coaches?—Yes; I should think we could perform the journey from
Newbury to Reading in a quarter of an hour’s less time, which is
seventeen miles.

Have you, as proprietor of mail coaches, had occasion to express any
dissatisfaction to the Post Office, with regard to your present
contracts?—Certainly, with very great reason.

Do you think that you should be enabled to continue those contracts at
the present rate, if the roads are not put into a better state of
repair?—That entirely depends upon the price of corn; we were very great
sufferers till lately, that corn has fallen so much: or else my brother,
as well as myself, intended to quit the mails, because we were losing a
great deal of money.

Do you consider that the system of repairing roads, which has been
adopted in that part of the road which you have described as under the
superintendance of Mr. MᶜAdam, is superior to any other that you have
seen adopted?—Certainly, I am sure it is, there is no question about it.

And that its general adoption would be highly beneficial to the coach
proprietors, and to the public?—Most certainly.


Mr. _Fromont_ being prevented by an accident from attending the
Committee, it was resolved that the following Letter be entered on the
Minutes:

                                                     Thatcham, May 1819.

  Gentlemen,

  I think it a duty incumbent on me to present to you my opinion
  respecting Mr. MᶜAdam’s plan of repairing and improving turnpike
  roads. From what I have noticed of his improvement on different parts
  of the Bath road, on which I am at present working different coaches a
  distance of above 500 miles per day, I think his plan altogether, _i.
  e._ first of screening and cleansing the gravel, and breaking the
  stones; secondly, of preparing the road to receive it; and thirdly, of
  laying it on the road, is the best and safest method I have ever seen
  in the course of fifty years experience in the coach and waggon
  business. I have formerly had several accidents happen from the gravel
  being laid too thick and very high in the middle of the road; and have
  killed some hundreds of horses (extra) in pulling through it; and I
  think I may venture to say, that if Mr. MᶜAdam’s plan was adopted
  generally throughout the kingdom, in the course of a short time the
  public would be enabled to travel with much greater ease and safety,
  and at nearly one-third less of expense; at all events I am convinced
  that nearly one-third less labour is required to work a fast coach
  over part of the road between Reading and London, where MᶜAdam’s plan
  has been adopted, than there is over other parts of the road where
  they still continue the old plan In short, my opinion may be given in
  a few words; his plan, if adopted generally, will cause the traveller
  to find easier, safer, and more expeditious travelling, and the owners
  of horses a diminution of nearly one-third of the original labour.

                                   I am, Gentlemen, with respect,
                                           Your most obedient servant,
                                                       _Edward Fromont_.




                     _Jovis, 4º die Martii, 1819._


          _John Loudon MᶜAdam_, Esq. called in; and Examined.

I believe, Mr. MᶜAdam, you reside at Bristol?—Yes, I do.

And have under your care a considerable district of the turnpike roads
in that neighbourhood?—Yes, about one hundred and eighty miles of road
in that neighbourhood.

How long has your attention been particularly directed to the state of
the public roads of the kingdom generally, and the means of their
improvement?—About twenty-five years.

Are you a professional civil engineer?—No.

Be pleased to state to the Committee the general state of the turnpike
roads at the time you first directed your attention to them, about
twenty years ago?—I think the state of the roads twenty years ago, was
worse generally than at present, and in particular places much worse. If
the Committee would indulge me, I would mention what first led me to
these considerations. On my first arriving from America in the year
1783, at the time the roads were making in Scotland (their Turnpike Acts
being in operation about twenty years at that time,) very many of their
roads were unmade. I was then appointed a commissioner of the roads, and
had occasion in that capacity to see a great deal of road-work.

Where?—In Scotland. This first led me to inquire into the general method
of road-making, and the expense of it. Since that period, I have been
mostly in Bristol, where I was also appointed a commissioner of the
roads; the very defective state of which could not fail to attract my
attention. I was induced to offer myself to the commissioners, to take
charge of the roads as a surveyor, because I found it impossible for any
individual commissioner to get the roads put into a situation of being,
mended with any prospect of success; and no individual could incur the
expense of making experiments on a great scale. The roads of Bristol
were accordingly put under my direction in the month of January 1816.

That was when you were appointed surveyor?—Yes, I have travelled at
various times, during the lost twenty years, to ascertain which are the
best roads, and which the best means of road-making over the whole
kingdom, from Inverness in Scotland to the Land’s End in Cornwall. I
have obtained all the information that an unauthorized person could
expect to receive. In the course of travelling through the country, I
have generally found the roads in a very defective state, certainly much
worse in particular parts of the country than in others; and in
particular counties I have found some parts of the roads much worse than
in other parts of the same county. The defects of the roads appear to me
to proceed from various causes, but principally from the large use of a
mixture of clay and chalk and other matters, that imbibe water, and are
affected by frost. Such roads become loose in wet weather, so as to
allow the wheels of carriages to displace the materials, and thereby
occasion the roads to be rough and rutty. More pains, and much more
expense, have been bestowed on the roads of late years, but without, in
my opinion, producing any adequate effect, from want of skill in the
executive department. I consider the roads in South Wales, in
Monmouthshire, in Cornwall, in Devonshire, in Herefordshire, in part of
Hampshire, in part of Oxfordshire, and some part of Gloucestershire, are
managed with the least skill, and consequently, at the heaviest expense.
The paved roads of Lancashire appear to be very unprofitable, and very
expensive. I shall mention to the Committee a few roads which I think in
a better condition and under a better system of management. Eastward of
Bridgewater in Somersetshire, near Kendal in Westmoreland, and near
North Allerton, in Yorkshire, the roads appear to be in a much better
state than in other parts of the kingdom; and there is a striking
difference in the moderate rate of their tolls, which I have always
found most moderate where the roads are best managed. I consider the
reason of the roads in those parts being in a better condition than in
other places, is from greater skill and attention being paid to the
preparation of the materials and the manner laying them on the roads.

Does the superiority of roads, in certain places that you have
mentioned, arise from their better materials in those
neighbourhoods?—No; the same material is found in many parts of the
kingdom with much worse roads.

Then, in general, you impute the badness of the roads solely to the
applying of the materials?—Yes.

And also to the formation of the roads?—That I consider as part of the
application of the materials.

Has there prevailed of late years a general spirit of improvement, in
different parts of the country, with regard to the roads?—I think there
has, and particularly in the west country.

What instances have come within your own knowledge?—The roads
immediately round the city of Bristol to the extent of 148 miles, round
Bath to the extent of 49 miles, between Cirencester and Bath to the
amount of 32 miles, the roads of nine trusts in the eastern parts of
Sussex amounting to 97 miles, at Epsom in Surrey amounting to 20 miles,
at Reading in Berkshire six miles, amounting in the whole to 352 miles,
have been put into a very good condition; in addition to which, there
are now under repair, five trusts in Wiltshire and Berkshire, amounting
to 108 miles; six trusts in Middlesex, Cambridge and Huntingdon,
amounting to 91 miles; six trusts in Devonshire, Buckinghamshire and
Glamorganshire, amounting to 129 miles; making a total of 328 miles
under repair. These are roads that have been mended, or are now mending,
under directions which I have given, or which have been given by my
family.

You are not particularly acquainted with the improvements taking place
under the management of other persons?—Not particularly; but I have some
knowledge of some of them from circumstances.

You have not taken under observation the great road to Holyhead?—No;
that I understand is a new road. You asked me with respect to the spirit
of improvement; I would wish to explain in what way I think that is
proceeding. I have been sent for and consulted by 34 different sets of
commissioners, and as many different trusts, and in 13 counties, to the
extent of 637 miles, all of whom have been making improvements, and I
have had many sub-surveyors instructed and sent to various parts of the
country, at the request of commissioners; many surveyors also in the
neighbourhood where improvements are making, have availed themselves of
the opportunity of having instruction. Thus the surveyors of Southampton
and that neighbourhood have attended to what is doing at Salisbury and
Wilton; thus the surveyors at Kingston and Guildford have profited by
the improvements at Epsom in Surrey.

On which road are the 20 miles that you mentioned at Epsom?—From Epsom
to Tooting, and then across the country to Kingston. Several surveyors
near Reading in Berkshire have imitated, with considerable success, the
improvements on that road. Mr. Clay, who has contracted for the repair
of the Kingsland road near London, engaged a young man who was in my
office at Bristol, Mr. Marshal, whom he sent afterwards to Leeds in
Yorkshire. It has been my study to give every facility to spread
information.

Has your attention been directed to the roads in the neighbourhood of
London; and can you state to the Committee whether any corresponding
improvement has taken place in this district?—I think less improvement
has taken place round London than in the country. On the new Surrey
roads the example set by the pieces of road made at Blackfriars and
Westminster bridges has induced a little amendment; the materials have
been more carefully broken, and they have continued to use the hammers,
rakes and other tools which were recommended to them; but the general
improvement is unimportant: and I am not aware that any alteration has
taken place in the system of expenditure, and the mode of being supplied
with materials, or in employing more competent surveyors.

From the experience you have had in the improvements that have taken
place, have you found that these have been attended generally, with an
increase or diminution of expense?—In general the expense must be
diminished by the improvements. The repairs of one hundred and
forty-eight miles round Bristol, and many expensive permanent
improvements and alterations, have been made in the last three years,
during which a floating debt of upwards 1,400_l._ has been paid off, a
considerable reduction of the principal debt has been made, and a
balance of a considerable amount is remaining in the hands of the
treasurer, applicable to further alterations, or to the payment of part
of the debt, at the discretion of the commissioners.

Can you state what proportion that is?—I think the first year, 723_l._

What is the amount of the whole debt?—The whole debt is 43,000_l._ I
said a considerable reduction of the principal debt had been made, I did
not use the word proportion. I can mention that the balance in the hands
of the treasurer, on the last settlement of the account amounted to
2,790_l._ 0_s._ 4_d._ in the Bristol district, beside a considerable
diminution of the debt, and beside alterations and improvements.

That applies only to one hundred and forty-eight miles round
Bristol?—Only to the one hundred and forty-eight miles round Bristol.
The Bristol district has been under one trust for twenty years, and in
that period the debt has increased to 43,000_l._

You will be kind enough to furnish the Committee, with a statement
similar to that which was supplied by you to the Holyhead Committee,
down to the latest period?—I will. Bristol is the only district for
which I can have precise figures, I have not had the finances in my own
management or direction with respect to the others. As I have only
advised with respect to them, I cannot give you the items; and I must
say, that my information with respect to other roads, must be much more
general than with respect to this road. In Sussex, the roads in nine
trusts have been mended with a considerable diminution of the former
expense, and the thanks of a general meeting of the trustees of the
Lewes trusts were unanimously voted to Lord Chichester “for the
introduction of this system, by which the roads had been so much
improved, and the country was likely to derive so much benefit.”

Have you found that a similar diminution of expense has taken place
where the materials have been bad, as where they have been good?—Yes, I
have.

Do you find your mode of management equally applicable where the
materials are bad as where they are good, and that the same
proportionable benefit arises?—I am afraid gentlemen suppose that I have
some particular mode of management, which is certainly not the case, nor
can by any means be the case; and in every road I have been obliged to
alter the mode of management, according to the situation of the roads,
and sometimes according to the finances. At Epsom in Surrey, the roads
have been put into a good repair, at an expense considerably under the
former annual expenditure, by which the trustees have been enabled to
lower their tolls on agricultural carriages. The road between Reading
and Twyford, in Berkshire, has been made solid and smooth since the
beginning of July last, by persons under my directions, at an expense,
including the surveyor’s salary, not exceeding fifteen pounds per week;
and their former expenditure, exclusive of the surveyor’s salary, was
twenty-two pounds per week. A great part of the road in the
neighbourhood of Bath, which was formed upon the plan laid down in my
report to the commissioners, and with the greatest success, is made with
freestone, which was always supposed impossible to make a good road of;
but it will make a good road. It certainly does not last so long as one
made of better materials; but it is equally good whilst it does last.
One of the roads out of Bristol towards Old Down has been made good,
where it was a received opinion, that from the nature of the materials
the road could not be made so; and the commissioners would not consent
to my beginning it until the road was threatened to be indicted. It was
put into my hands in October 1816, and at the Christmas following I was
able to report that it was one of the best roads in England for a
distance of eleven miles, at the expense of first outlay only of 600_l._
and it has continued so until the present.

Please to inform the Committee, what are the means, in your opinion, the
most eligible to be adopted for the amelioration of the roads throughout
the kingdom?—That question, I think, divides itself into two branches:
The operative part, in making the roads, and the care of the finances,
and the mode of their expenditure. I should imagine the operative part
of preparing roads cannot be effected without procuring a more skilful
set of sub-surveyors; young men, brought up to agriculture and labour
must be sought, and regularly instructed. It is a business that cannot
be taught from books, but can only be acquired by a laborious practice
of several months, and actual work upon roads, under skilful
road-makers. Young men who have been accustomed to agricultural labour
are fittest to be made road-surveyors, as their occupations have given
them opportunities of being acquainted with the value of labour both of
men and horses. But I should greatly mislead the Committee if I did not
inform them, that skill in the operative part of road-making cannot
alone produce a reformation of the multitude of abuses that are
practised in almost every part of the country, in the management of
roads and road funds. These abuses can only be put down by officers in
the situation of gentlemen, who must enjoy the confidence, and have the
support of commissioners, and who must exercise a constant and vigilant
inspection over the expenditure made by the sub-surveyors. They must be
enabled to certify to the commissioners that the public money is
judiciously and usefully, as well as honestly expended; without this
control and superintendence an end cannot be put to the waste of the
public money, and all the various modes that are injurious to the public
interest, the amount of which would appear incredible, could it be
ascertained; but which, I conscientiously believe, amount to one-eighth
of the road revenue of the kingdom at large, and to a much greater
proportion near London.

Do you mean the frauds amount to one-eighth?—No, not direct frauds, I
call it mis-application; it must not be concealed, that the temptations
with which, even a superior officer will be assailed, the facility of
yielding to them, and the impunity with which transgression may be
committed, require great delicacy in the selection of persons to fill
the situation; and encouragement to make this a profession must be in
proportion to the quality of the person required.

Do you not consider one of these mis-applications to be the injudicious
use of the labour of horses, instead of that of men, women and
children?—I do consider that to be a great mis-application of the labour
of horses. I am afraid that gentlemen may understand, from what I said,
that frauds are committed to the amount of one-eighth, but I meant no
such thing; I meant the loss arising from mis-application generally. I
have in general found a great deal more materials put upon the road than
are necessary, and I am of opinion that is one of the chief causes of
the waste of the public money.

Do you think the loss arises, in most instances, from mistake, or from
any abuse in regard to the power and patronage which the situation
confers?—I think it proceeds from mistakes and ignorance mostly.

Please to explain to the Committee in what way you think the labour of
men, women and children, may be substituted for that of horses?—I have
generally found that a much greater quantity of materials have been
carted to the roads than are necessary, and therefore the increase of
horse-labour has been beyond any useful purpose, and that generally the
roads of the kingdom contain a supply of materials sufficient for their
use for several years, if they were properly lifted and applied; this is
to be entirely done by men, women, and children, men lifting the roads,
and women and boys, and men past labour, breaking the stones which were
lifted up.

By lifting the road, you mean turning it up with the pickaxe?—Yes; that
I consider as man’s work; taking up the materials and breaking stones, I
consider the work of women and children, and which indeed ought to have
been done before those materials had been laid down.

How deep do you go in lifting the roads?—That depends upon
circumstances, but I have generally gone four inches deep; I take the
materials up four inches deep, and having broken the larger pieces, I
put them back again.

Please to explain to the Committee the mode of breaking the stones so as
to admit of the labour of men, women and children?—When the stones of an
old road have been taken up, they are generally found of the size that
women and boys can break them with small hammers, and therefore I would
propose to employ these people to break those stones always before they
are laid back in the roads.

Is it your plan for those people to break those stones standing, or in a
sitting posture?—Always in a sitting posture: because I have found that
persons sitting will break more stones than persons standing, and with a
lighter hammer.

Does that apply to all materials?—To all materials universally.

Does the plan which you have mentioned of breaking up the roads, apply
to gravel roads, or only to those roads composed of hard stones?—In
gravel roads and in some other roads it would be impossible to break
them up to any advantage; and in several places which I will explain, I
should think it unprofitable to lift a road at all. There is a
discretion of the surveyor, or the person who has the execution of the
work, which must be exercised. I did not order the road in the
neighbourhood of Reading to be lifted, but I directed wherever a large
piece of flint was seen, it should be taken up, broken, and put down
again; and I directed the road to be made perfectly clean—I am speaking
of a gravel road now—and I directed that additional gravel should be
prepared in the pits by screening the dirt very clean from it, breaking
all the large pieces and bringing that upon the road in very light coats
not exceeding two inches at a time; and when those coats were settled,
to bring others of very clean materials upon the road, until it settled
into a solid smooth hard surface, and which the coachmen in their mode
of expression, say “runs true.” The wheel runs hard upon it; it runs
upon the nail.

Uninfluenced by the state of the weather?—Perfectly so.

In your experience, have you observed that on gravel roads the materials
are generally very unskilfully and improperly applied?—Generally so. I
think always I may say, for I think I never saw them skilfully or
properly managed.

Have you adopted the mode of washing the gravel?—No; I think that is a
more expensive process than is necessary.

Do you think it more expensive than screening?—A great deal more so, and
I have another reason for objecting to that, with respect to the gravel
near London; the loam adheres so strongly to it that no ordinary washing
will clean it. The loam is detached from the gravel by the united effort
of the water on the road, and the travelling, by which the roads near
London become so excessively dirty; but it would be impossible to detach
the loam from the gravel in the pits, by throwing water on it; I have
tried the experiment and know the fact.

To what particular practice do you allude, when you inform the Committee
that gravel is unskilfully applied to the roads in general?—I see that
on gravel roads, the gravel is put on after being very imperfectly
sifted, and the huge pieces not being broken, and the gravel is laid on
the middle of the road and allowed to find its own may to the sides. Now
the principle of road-making I think the most valuable, is to put broken
stone upon a road, which shall unite by its own angles, so as to form a
solid hard surface, and therefore it follows, that when that material is
laid upon the road, it must remain in the situation in which it is
placed without ever being moved again; and what I find fault with
putting quantities of gravel on the road is, that before it becomes
useful it must move its situation and be in constant motion.

In order to attain the advantage you allude to in the angular materials,
I take it for granted, it is your plan to have the larger pieces of
gravel well broken?—Certainly; but I mean further, that in digging the
gravel near London, and places where there are vast quantities of loam,
and that loam adhering to every particle of the gravel, however small, I
should recommend to leave the very small or fine part of the gravel in
the pits, and to make use of the larger part which can be broken, for
the double purpose of having the gravel laid on the road in an angular
shape, and that the operation of breaking it is the most effectual
operation for beating off the loam that adheres to the pieces of gravel.
There are other cases besides that of gravel, in which I should think it
unprofitable to lift a road. The road between Cirencester and Bath is
made of very soft stone, and is of so brittle a nature, that if it were
lifted it would rise in sand, and there would be nothing to lay down
again that would be useful. I should not recommend lifting of freestone
roads for the same reason, because it would go so much to sand that
there would be very little to lay down again. I will explain what I have
done to that road between Cirencester and Bath; I was obliged to lift a
little of the sides of the road in order to give it shape, but in the
centre of the road, we, what our men call, “shaved it;” it was before in
the state which the country people call “gridironed,” that is, it was in
long ridges with long hollows between, and we cut down the high part to
a level with the bottom of the furrows, and took the materials and
sifted them at the side of the read and returned what was useful to the
centre.

Can you state whether the plan adopted on this road has increased or
diminished the expense?—I think the expenses, by the last account, were
rather within the expenditure of the former year, even including the new
surveyor’s wages. They had been in the practice of allowing about 32_l._
a week to the two surveyors as the ordinary expenditure; I directed the
new surveyors not to exceed that sum upon any account whatever,
including their own wages: but formerly they paid that sum, and paid the
surveyor his wages at the end of the quarter or half-year in addition:
therefore I consider the sum expended upon the road is rather within the
former expenditure than otherwise, except with regard to two dangerous
slips which took place at Swainswick-hill, which I consider as perfectly
extra.

In the formation of roads under your management, to what shape do you
give the preference; I allude to the convex shape or the flat?—I
consider a road should be as flat as possible with regard to allowing
the water to run off at all, because a carriage ought to stand upright
in travelling as much as possible. I have generally made roads three
inches higher in the centre than I have at the sides, when they are 18
feet wide; if the road be smooth and well made, the water will run off
very easily in such a slope.

Do you consider a road so made will not be likely to wear hollow in the
middle, so as to allow the water to stand, after it has been used for
some time?—No; when a road is made flat, people will not follow the
middle of it as they do when it is made extremely convex. Gentlemen will
have observed that in roads very convex, travellers generally follow the
track in the middle, which is the only place where a carriage can run
upright, by which means three furrows are made by the horses and the
wheels, and the water continually stands there: and I think that more
water actually stands upon a very convex road than on one which is
reasonably flat.

What width would you in general recommend for laying materials on a
turnpike road?—That must depend upon the situation. Near great towns
roads of course ought to be wider than farther in the country. Roads
near great towns ought not to be less than thirty or forty feet wide,
but at a distance from great towns it would be a waste of land to make
them so wide.

You mean a breadth of thirty feet actual road?—Yes. The access to
Bristol for a distance of about three miles, if we had room between the
hedges, I would make about thirty feet wide. Between Bath and Bristol I
should wish to see the road wide all the way, because it is only the
distance of twelve miles between two large cities.

In what way do you make the watercourses at the sides of the road; I ask
that question, having observed the farmers, in exercising their power of
cleaning out their ditches, dig them to such a depth as to render them
dangerous to be passed at night?—I always wished the ditch to be so dug
as that the materials of the road should be three or four inches above
the level of the water in the ditch, and to that point we endeavour to
bring the farmers, but they are very unwilling to clean the ditches at
any time when called upon, and when they do it, if they find vegetable
mould in any quantity at the bottom of the ditch, they will prosecute
their inquiry much deeper than is useful, or proper for safety.

Do you consider you have power by law, at present, for preventing
that?—Yes; because the law says, they are to clean them out according to
the directions of the surveyors.

In your experience have you found any impediment to the improvement of
the roads, from a want of power in the proprietors of different
navigations to lower their tolls for conveying materials?—I have found
in the river Lea navigation, that the trustees have no power to lower
their tolls, which were imposed by act of parliament upon merchandize,
and therefore, it operated in a great measure as a prohibition to carry
materials upon that river.

Do you consider it would be to the interest of the proprietors to allow
materials to be carried on their navigations at a lower rate than they
are empowered to allow by law?—Yes, if they could.

Do you know any similar instance as applicable to canals?—I don’t know
an instance with respect to canal trusts, but there is an instance with
respect to the Bath river at Bristol. No mitigation of the present rate
of duty on that river can take place if objected to by any one
proprietor, and therefore we have found great difficulty in carrying
materials on the Bath river. In one particular place we have been
entirely precluded from carrying any.

Have you found any impediment to the improvement of roads arising from
the conditions upon which materials are permitted to be conveyed from
one parish to another?—Yes; I found that in several cases in the Bristol
district. One very strong instance occurred near Keynsham; we had a
quarry close to the edge of one parish, and we could not carry the
stones from it to the distance of ten yards, without the process of
going to the magistrates.

Did you in that case make application to the magistrates?—I did intend
to make application, but before I made that application, I found in the
very next field, belonging to the same farmer, and in the parish where
we required them, the necessary materials, and I was under the necessity
of opening both the fields, to the detriment of the farmer’s landlord I
am persuaded.

Do you know an instance of such an application as that to which you have
alluded, having been made to the magistrates, and having been
refused?—No, I do not.

Do you think that a great inconvenience and loss of time would be saved
if that necessity of application was dispensed with?—It certainly is a
great inconvenience, and creates a great deal of heart-burning in the
country, and much dispute. I think the commissioners would very seldom
be disposed to carry materials from one parish to another, unless for
the general public good.

What depth of solid materials would you think it right to put upon a
road, in order to repair it properly?—I should think that ten inches of
well consolidated materials is equal to carry anything.

That is, provided the substratum is sound?—No; I should not care whether
the substratum was soft or hard; I should rather prefer a soft one to a
hard one.

You don’t mean you would prefer a bog?—If it was not such a bog as would
not allow a man to walk over, I should prefer it.

What advantage is derived from the substrata not being perfectly
solid?—I think, when a road ts placed upon a hard substance, such as a
rock, the road wears much sooner than when placed on a soft substance.

But must not the draught of a carriage be much greater on a road which
has a very soft foundation, than over one which is of a rocky
foundation?—I think the difference would be very little indeed, because
the yield of a good road on a soft foundation, is not perceptible.

To use the expression to which you have alluded, as being used by the
coachmen, would a carriage run so true upon a road, the foundation of
which was soft, as upon one of which the foundation was hard?—If the
road be very good, and very well made, it will be so solid, and so hard,
as to make no difference. And I will give the Committee a strong
instance of that, in the knowledge of many gentlemen here. The road in
Somersetshire, between Bridgewater and Cross, is mostly over a morass,
which is so extremely soft, that when you ride in a carriage along the
road, you see the water tremble in the ditches on each side; and after
there has been a slight frost, the vibration of the water from the
carriage on the road, will be so great as to break the young ice. That
road is partly in the Bristol district. I think there is about seven
miles of it, and at the end of those seven miles, we come directly on
the limestone rock. I think we have about five or six miles of this
rocky road immediately succeeding the morass; and being curious to know
what the wear was, I had a very exact account kept, not very lately, but
I think the difference is as five to seven in the expenditure of the
materials on the soft and hard.

Do you mean seven on the hard and five on the soft?—Yes.

And yet the hard road is more open to the effect of the sun and air than
the soft road?—It certainly lies higher.

Have you ever inquired of the coachmen, on which of those two
descriptions of roads the carriages run the lightest?—Yes, I have; and I
have found that there is no difference, if the road be equally smooth on
the surface, whether it be placed on the soft ground or hard.

But in forming a road over a morass, would you bottom the road with
small or large stones?—I never use large stones on the bottom of a road;
I would not put a large stone in any part of it.

In forming a road across morass, would you not put some sort of
intermediate material between the bog and the stone?—No, never.

Would you not put faggots?—No, no faggots.

How small would you use the stones?—Not to exceed six ounces in weight.

Have you not found that a foundation of bog sinks?—No, not a bit of the
road sinks; and we have the same thickness of materials on the one as on
the other.

If a road be made smooth and solid, it will be one mass, and the effect
of the substrata, whether clay or sand, can never be felt in effect by
carriages going over the road; because a road well made, unites itself
into a body like a piece of timber or a board.

In making a road under these circumstances, do you make the whole of the
depth of materials at once?—No, I prefer making a road in three times.

Three different times?—Yes.

To what size would you break the hard materials?—To the size of six
ounces weight.

Do you not think that is an indefinite criterion; had you not better
mention the size?—No; I did imagine myself, that the difference existed
to which you allude, and I have weighed six ounces of different
substances, and am confident there is little difference in appearance
and none in effect; I think that none ought to exceed six ounces; I hold
six ounces to be the maximum size. If you made the road, of all six
ounce stones it would be a rough road; but it is impossible but that the
greater part of the stones must be under that size.

Do you find a measure or ring through which the stones will pass, a good
method of regulating their size?—That is a very good way, but I always
make my surveyors carry a pair of scales and a six ounce weight in their
pocket, and when they come to a heap of stones, they weigh one or two of
the largest, and if they are reasonably about that weight they will do;
it is impossible to make them come exactly to it. I would beg leave to
say, in all cases of laying new materials upon an old road, I recommend
loosening the surface with a pickaxe a very little, so as to allow the
new materials to unite with the old, otherwise the new materials being
laid on the hard surface never unite, but get kicked about, and are lost
to the roads; wherever new materials are to be put down upon an old
road, I recommend a little loosening; but that I don’t call lifting.

Have you stated what thickness of new materials you would lay down on an
old road?—I should consider an old road would not want new materials if
it had ten inches of materials before, but I should only pick up the
materials, and break the large stones; and if there were any want of
materials, I would lay on as much as would bring it up to somewhere
about the ten inches.

Would you prefer doing that in dry weather or in wet weather?—In wet
weather, always; I always prefer mending a road in weather not very dry.

Are you of opinion that any alteration of the present law, either in
regard to the repeal of the present regulations or the enactment of new
ones, could advantageously take place in regard to the shape of wheels,
and the allowance of weight to be carried in waggons and carts?—I am of
opinion that the descriptions of wheels given in all the acts of
parliament in the last sessions are the most convenient and useful; and
I have thought of the matter very much, without being able to suggest
any alteration profitable to the public. With respect to weights, I
consider there are very great difficulties in that business. We have
weighing machines in the neighbourhood I now am in, and I am persuaded
in many instances that they are made instruments of oppression, and in a
great many cases the means of committing very great fraud on the
commissioners and others; and if some method could be fallen upon by
which weighing machines might be dispensed with altogether, and the road
reasonably protected, I should think it a very great public advantage.
In the new Bristol Act, I have proposed to the commissioners that they
should submit to parliament to lay a toll-duty upon the number of horses
in a progressive ratio, so as to compel those people who offend to bring
in their hands the penalty in the shape of toll; I think it would
prevent a great deal of that system of entering into combinations
between the toll collectors and the waggoners, which is carried on to a
great extent.

Do you think, that if horses in narrow-wheeled waggons were obliged to
draw otherwise than at length, it would afford any protection to the
road?—Yes.

Has not the practice of making horses draw at length very much a
tendency to make the horses follow one track, be the road ever so
good?—Yes; and I must mention to the Committee, that the feet of horses
on ill-made roads do full as much mischief as the wheels. It is driving
horses in a string that makes a road what the country people call
“gridironed;” it is an odd expression, but it is a very significant one.

Do you not believe, that if horses were attached to narrow wheeled
waggons in pairs, it would be found very considerably easier to drive
and guide them when abreast, than when placed at length?—I should think
it would.

And would it not tend to prevent accidents?—Horses driven in pairs would
provide in a great measure against the accidents that arise from the
carelessness of those persons who drive them, which is extremely great.

Do you think that if horses were put in pairs to waggons, the power of
holding back those waggons when going down a hill, would be so much
increased as to prevent the necessity of so frequently locking the
wheels?—Certainly it would; because on certain slopes it would not be
necessary to lock the wheels; but there are very steep hills where you
cannot do without locking.

Is not locking wheels an operation extremely injurious to the roads?—I
am not prepared to say it is, if the drag-iron, as it is called, be of a
proper description. I followed a waggon lately, with seven tons of
timber on it, down Park-street, at Bristol, being a very steep road,
with both its hind wheels locked; and this waggon, with this weight of
timber on in and with both the hind wheels locked, did not make the
least impression from the top of the street to the bottom. You could
discern where the drag-irons had gone, but they had not displaced the
materials nor done any mischief.

Don’t you find locking generally injurious?—Extremely injurious; on
rough roads it is dreadful.

Would not fewer ruts be made if it were more the custom for horses to
draw in pairs?—I believe gentlemen are not generally aware of what a rut
consists. There are two kinds of ruts, generally speaking: one is a rut
produced by displacing ill-prepared materials, and that is the common
rut. When a road is made of ill-prepared materials, the wheel piles them
up one upon another, and that forms a very narrow rut, which just holds
the wheel; but a rut made by wear upon a smooth surface, is rather a
concave hollow than a rut, and will present no difficulty to a carriage
in travelling, and that is the difference between a rut produced by wear
in a very well-made road, and that produced by displacing the materials.

Is there not much injury done to the roads by the heavy weights both of
coaches and waggons?—I am not disposed to think that upon a well-made
road the weight of coaches is material, or that it would be judicious to
make any legal provisions affecting that subject. In regard to waggons,
I conceive that the loads carried upon wheels of the description
encouraged by recent acts of parliament, whatever their weight, would be
very little injurious to well-made roads. I think a waggon wheel of six
inches in breadth, if standing fairly on the road with any weight
whatever, would do very little material injury to a road well made, and
perfectly smooth. The injury done to roads is by these immense weights
striking against materials, and in the present mode of shaping the
wheels they drive the materials before them, instead of passing over
them, because I think if a carriage passes fairly over a smooth surface,
that cannot hurt the road, but must rather be an advantage to it, upon
the principle of the roller.

Are you not of opinion that the immense weights carried by the
broad-wheeled waggons, even by their perpendicular pressure, do injury
by crushing the materials?—On a new-made road the crush would do
mischief, but on a consolidated old road the mere perpendicular pressure
does not do any. But there is a great deal of injury done by the conical
form of the broad wheels, which operate like sledging instead of turning
fairly. There is a sixteen-inch wheel waggon which comes out of Bristol,
that does more injury to our roads than all the travelling of the day
besides.

Are you of opinion that any benefit arises from those broad-wheeled
waggons, which would justify their total exemption from tolls?—None at
all.

Does the answer you have given to the Committee relative to the effect
of great weights, apply equally to roads made with gravel, as well as
broken stone?—I mean it to apply to all well-made roads, whether of
gravel or of other materials.

You mean after the road is smooth and solid?—Yes.

But with regard to a new road, are you not of opinion that the materials
are crushed and worn out by a great weight?—Yes; no doubt that is so on
a new-made road, and one of those waggons with the wheels made conical,
would crush a greater proportion of stone than it ought to do.

Do you not conceive that the state of the turnpike roads would be
improved by not allowing any waggons to carry more weight than four
ton?—I don’t know that that would make any great difference, under good
management. I think the defect lies in a want of science in road-making.




                     _Martis, 9° die Martii, 1819._


        _John Loudon MᶜAdam_, Esquire, called in; and Examined.

In your evidence last week, you stated that less improvement had taken
place in the roads in the neighbourhood of London than in any other
district, to what causes do you attribute this circumstance?—I consider
the principal cause to be the small extent of the trusts, and the
peculiar situation of London, which increases the bad effects of the
division into very small trusts.

What are the particulars of the situation to which you allude?—The
situation of most of the roads near London is very low, difficult to be
kept free from water, the traffic is very great both in weight and
number, and therefore requiring more skill, as well as more care and
attention, than the other roads of the kingdom; the material found near
London for making the roads is gravel of a very bad quality, it is mixed
with an adhesive loam that cannot be separated from the gravel, except
by the united power of water and friction; this operation cannot be
effectually performed before laying it on the roads, but is done by the
rain and the traffic, producing a stiff mud, which is not only in itself
an impediment to travelling, but has the effect of keeping the roads
loose; the form of the gravel is also unfavorable, being smooth round
masses of flint, without any angles by which the parts might unite. On
the other hand, London is placed in a situation peculiarly convenient
for being supplied with materials from a distance, by water carriage.
The materials that may be so procured are of the very best description,
and, under the sanction of parliament, may be procured on very moderate
terms. The Thames furnishes gravel of a very good quality and quite
clean; by using this gravel, the navigation of the river will be
improved; the several canals, the Surrey, the Grand Junction,
Paddington, and river Lea navigation, present facilities for procuring
clean flint of the best kind; the coast of Essex, Kent, and Sussex, can
furnish a supply to any extent of beach pebbles, one of the best road
materials in the kingdom. Granite chippings might be obtained
occasionally from Cornwall, Guernsey and Scotland, as ballast; two
pieces of road were made with these materials near London, without any
mixture of land gravel, at Blackfriars Bridge and Westminster Bridge.

What are the impediments which, in your opinion, prevent the
commissioners of the roads near London from availing themselves of those
advantages?—The very small trusts into which the roads in the immediate
vicinity of London are divided, is the principal cause; this renders it
impossible for commissioners to enter upon the plan of procuring
materials upon an extended scale, and they cannot be obtained with any
regard to economy, except in quantity, with a view to a supply for the
whole roads, proceeding from the stones of London to a certain distance.
There are also some impediments arising from particular laws,
regulations and customs, which can only be removed by parliament. The
Ballast Act gives a right of pre-emption to the Trinity House of all
stone and other materials brought as ballast into the Thames. The
coasting duty on stone operates as a prohibition to the importation of
stone as merchandize; the amount of canal duties payable on merchandize
prevents the carriage of road materials on all inland navigations;
manure so transported has been protected in most Canal Acts, but road
materials have not been considered. Should parliament be pleased to
remove these difficulties, the London roads may be rendered independent
of the gravel of the country, by a moderate exertion of statistical and
mercantile information on the part of the officers employed by the
commissioners.

If the Committee understand you right, you give a decided preference to
materials thus imported, over the gravel to be found in the
neighbourhood of London?—I do.

Is it your opinion, that by proper regulations a sufficient supply of
those materials to which you have alluded, could be procured for the
whole of the roads in the neighbourhood of London?—Yes, I think there
might; because a steady and constant demand, even at a low price, would
insure importation, and this demand can only be steady if the roads
round London were consolidated under one set of commissioners acting for
the whole, and having depôts into which they could receive materials at
all times at a fixed price, to be distributed wherever wanted, by an
assurance of a ready purchaser; vessels coming in ballast, or not fully
loaded, from any place where good road materials were to be procured,
would be induced to take on board sufficient to make up their loading;
contracts could also be made for flint by the various canals, and upon
terms more moderate than the present price of gravel; I am unable to lay
before the Committee a detailed plan for supplying the London roads with
good and cheap materials, which requires a considerable time and
attention in the inquiry.

Is there any other information connected with the improvement of the
roads in the neighbourhood of London, which you think you could give to
the Committee?—I am quite satisfied that the materials to be imported
into London would make good roads, because I made two pieces of very
excellent road with those materials at the two bridges, without making
use of any gravel of the country.

At what time was this done?—The pieces of road were made in August and
September 1817.

What was the extent?—There were about 200 yards of the one, and about
180 yards of the other; one of them joins the iron pavement at the foot
of Blackfriars bridge; and the other joins the Marsh-gate turnpike, and
goes to the Asylum; those roads were made with river-gravel and pebbles
from the coast.

From whence did you get the river-gravel?—It was purchased from the
steam-engines that raise it in the river.

Did you lift the old road?—I took up all the stones that were in them
that were good for any thing, the flints and other stones, and then made
use of a considerable quantity of additional materials to make the
surface of the road afterwards.

Was the expense considerable?—There was no account kept of the expense
of the experiment at Westminster bridge, because the commissioners
wished me to employ a number of paupers and persons that had been on the
road before, without discharging them, who were very indifferent hands;
and they also wished that the road should be very considerably above the
level than I thought necessary, and that brought much more materials
than otherwise need have been put on; but the Blackfriars bridge
experiment cost about seven-pence halfpenny per square yard; there was a
very correct account kept of it, including the price of materials and
labour, and every thing.

Could you state what that would amount to for a mile?—That would depend
upon the breadth of the road.

At what rate per mile would be the expense of such an improvement,
supposing the road thirty feet wide?—About 528l. or 530_l._

Is not a road constructed with a roadway of sixteen feet breadth of
solid materials, and with six feet on each side of that with slighter
materials, a sufficient road for the general purposes of country
travelling?—Yes; and generally the roads round Bristol are made with
stone, about the breadth of sixteen feet.

In your former answer respecting materials, you made use generally of
the term roads “round London,” to what extent did you mean to convey the
idea of that improvement?—I should think that the river, and the
facility of the canals, might in all places allow you to carry the
improvement ten miles round London; and perhaps where the canals or
rail-ways come through the country, you might carry the improvement
farther.

Has not the system of road management at present practised, the effect
of repressing efforts for acquiring skill and exertions of science, as
connected with the business of road-making?—I think it has.

Will you explain in what way?—Because the surveyors at present appointed
are not required to have any particular skill in their business before
they are appointed; but the appointment generally takes place to provide
for some person a situation; and the want of superior officers over the
sub-surveyors is the means of preventing those sub-surveyors from
acquiring a knowledge necessary to execute their duties under an officer
who would know whether they were able to execute them or not.

You mean that there is a not a sufficient degree of inspection and
control provided by the legislature over the conduct of the surveyor of
the roads?—I think so.

Do you conceive that a more scientific system of management of roads is
wanted universally?—I do.

Do not you conceive that the want of this scientific system leads to a
great waste of public money?—I think it leads to a great waste of public
money.

And also to a great waste of property in horses and carriages?—I think
it does.

Has any estimate ever been made of the extent of that loss?—There can be
no accurate estimate of a loss so universal as that of the waste of
horses and carriages by bad roads; but the Committee of 1811 estimated
the saving which would be made to the country by putting the roads in a
proper state of repair, at a sum equal to five millions annually.

What remedy would you propose to cure the defects of the general system
of road management?—My opinion is, that the only cure would be to have
people of a better station of life placed over them in the direction of
this business; that each county or large district in the country ought
to have an officer in the character of a gentleman, to oversee the
surveyors of the district; not only to direct them what to do, but to
see that the work is judiciously and honestly executed; and I think a
very small proportion of the sum now wasted by bad management would pay
for such an establishment.

Would you alter the trusts?—That would be a great advantage, if the
trusts could be consolidated; but there are objections to that, and very
serious objections.

Local objections?—Yes, such as the debt upon each trust.

Do you propose the appointment of those overseers to be with the present
commissioners of the roads?—Certainly.

Do you propose any general inspection to be established over the whole
system of road-making?—I should think it a public advantage if there was
some inspection or controlling power in some quarter or other, to
prevent the general surveyors from being improperly appointed; but
whether that controlling power should emanate from the government, or
the authorities in the county, I am not a judge.

Do you think a controlling power established in the metropolis, to
communicate on the subject throughout the kingdom, would be an
advantageous establishment?—I think it would be a very profitable and
desirable establishment.

Looking to the revenues and to practical advantages?—Looking to the
revenues, practical advantages, and to the dissemination of information.

Would you propose their having a power of suspending officers in certain
cases?—Certainly, till the pleasure of the commissioners was known; on
any gross instance of misconduct or negligence.

Would not you propose they should report occasionally the state and
condition of the roads, and also the state of the finances of each
trust?—I should think the state of the finances ought to be reported in
some way every year, that they might reach parliament, either by
counties, or by some means the least expensive and least troublesome;
and I think such a report of the finances, annually, would be a great
means of preventing mis-application of the public funds; and it would
create a comparison between one part of the country and another, that
would be useful in checking misconduct.

Then you do not think there is, at present, a sufficient protection of
the road revenue of the kingdom against dishonest or ignorant
practices?—I think the road revenue is less protected than any other
part of the public expenditure; and, though it is very large, it may be
considered, I think, almost unprotected, under the present system of
law.

Have you any loose guess in your own mind, as to the extent of the
revenue throughout the kingdom, raised for the purpose of maintaining
roads?—I have been led to guess a million and a quarter a year, as the
toll revenue; from the circumstance of there being five-and-twenty
thousand miles of turnpike road in England and Wales.

That is an increasing revenue?—It is certainly increasing very much; I
think the revenue has been increased by the increase of travelling, and
particularly stage-coaches.

Has not it been the practice to augment the tolls considerably in all
recent turnpike acts?—In the three sessions of parliament preceding the
present, I think, there were about ninety petitions to parliament for a
renewal of acts, and an increase of their tolls, because they were in a
state that they could not pay their debts without the assistance of
parliament.

Does not the great expense attending the renewal of acts of parliament,
contribute very much to restrain a proper improvement of the roads in
the kingdom?—The expense of renewing so many acts of parliament, as is
occasioned by the great division of trusts in the country, certainly
absorbs a very great sum of the road revenue of the kingdom; because
those acts are every one of them renewed every twenty-one years, and
frequently circumstances oblige the trustees to come oftener to
parliament.

Do you happen to know whether there have been any steps taken by the
Post-office, with a view to forming some general arrangement with regard
to the roads?—I am not acquainted with any. I have had repeated
conversations with lord Chichester, the postmaster-general, and he has
asked for all the information I could give his lordship; and, of course,
I have given the information pretty much in the manner I have had the
honour to do to this Committee; and, I believe, his lordship is
satisfied, that the consolidation of trusts would be very useful: and he
has used his influence in the county of Sussex to have nine trusts
consolidated, for the express purpose of mutual assistance in providing
a general surveyor.

Do you know the result?—I gave the result, and a copy of the resolutions
of the county, at the last meeting.

Do you know the result as to the expenditure?—Yes, it goes to that as
well as to the amendment of the roads.

Supposing any insuperable difficulty to exist in placing the management
of the roads of the kingdom under a board of management, do you not
consider that very great advantage would arise from consolidating the
different trusts round London, and placing them under an unity of
superintendence and regulation?—Certainly so; I think that that would be
a measure of the greatest use in the world; and I think that no
palliative, no other means whatever can be devised to get the London
roads improved, except consolidating the trusts under one head, or one
set of commissioners, or some body that shall control the whole;
consolidating the roads round London, would be the means probably of
great amelioration in the system or manner of mending the roads, and
that would serve as an example to other parts of the country, and might
be the means of extending improvement in the mode of road-making, and
would form a sort of school or example to other parts of the country.

Do you think, upon the same principle that you recommend consolidating
trusts round London, it would be advisable that powers should be given
to consolidate trusts in different parts of the kingdom?—I should think
it very advisable that powers were granted by parliament to such trusts
as chose to do it, to consolidate themselves into one body for the
purpose of having a better superintendence, or for any other purposes of
general improvement; but upon considering the matter very fully, I am of
opinion that it would be more profitable that the Legislature should
give leave to trusts than that they should make it imperative upon them;
it will be absolutely necessary, before any such measure could come into
effect, that parliament should not only give this leave, but that they
should make the proceedings of the general meeting of those trusts
legal, which at present they would not be as the law stands; the nine
trusts in Sussex, who have now voluntarily associated together, hold
what is considered a general meeting of those trusts; but I by no means
think that their proceedings are legal, as the law now stands.

In many cases where the consolidation would be beneficial, do not you
consider it would be resisted from local motives?—Perhaps it might be
resisted; it will be unfortunate when that happens to be the case, but
when the good effects of it begin to be seen in the country, I think
those objections would be got rid of.

Do you believe that the first effects of such consolidation would be a
diminution of expense?—I am quite certain of that.

How is that diminution of expense to arise?—By introducing a much better
mode of management, it would occasion more regularity in the mode of
keeping accounts, it would introduce a diminution of expense materially
in horse labour, and in various other things; that I think, upon the
whole, the diminution of expense by such regulation would be found very
great indeed.

Do not you believe that the present system of maintaining roads is the
means of a continued increase of expense in the debt and tolls
throughout the kingdom?—I think the debt is increasing very much
throughout the kingdom and that the debt is perhaps greater than
gentlemen in parliament are aware of; at present tolls are increasing.

Do you consider that there is a corresponding improvement in the roads,
in proportion to the increase of the tolls and debts?—By no means; my
belief is, that where the greatest expense is, there the worst
management is, or rather, that the worst management produces the
greatest expense.

Then, in your opinion, a great improvement might be effected on the
roads in general, which might be accompanied in the end by a gradual
diminution of debt and tolls?—Certainly, I think so.

Can you give any information as to the total amount of general debt on
the roads now existing in England and Wales? After inquiring by all the
means that an unauthorized individual could do in different parts of the
country, and ascertaining, as nearly as I could, the amount of debt upon
a great number of trusts; I have been inclined to believe that the debt
at present amounts to about seven millions in England and Wales.

Are you of opinion that any considerable advantage might be derived in
the management of the roads, by a commutation for the statute
labour?—Yes; I think very great advantage would be derived by the
public, if the statute labour were commuted for money, and that, if it
were commuted at a very low rate; if it were one half of the real value
of the work, I should think, the roads would be more benefited by it in
general through the country.

Is it the general practice in Scotland, under any act of parliament, to
commute statute labour for money?—All the acts of parliament I am
acquainted with in Scotland, have commuted it; one in the county I
belong to, commuted it twenty years ago with very great advantage.

You have mentioned that the commissioners of the Westminster bridge road
required you to employ a considerable number of paupers; the Committee
wish to know whether it is the general practice, in your observation, to
employ paupers upon roads?—I have always found that in every place where
the improvement of the roads has been commenced, under any advice given
by me, it has been desired very much by the inhabitants that the people
unemployed (not, perhaps, paupers that generally receive parish relief,
but those people who come to ask for relief, because they cannot get
work) should be employed on the road; and it has been very much my wish
to gratify that desire by giving them work, not by the day, but by the
piece, because that has generally put them off the parishes; the moment
they get work to do, by which they can get their bread, and without
which they cannot get their bread, they quit the parish.

Is it not the practice, in trusts where you have not been concerned, to
employ paupers, or very old labourers?—I have found in all the trusts
that have sent to me to take advice, that the labourers have been a
great number of them very inefficient men; and the excuse generally
given for that is, that those people would come to the parish if they
were not sent to the roads.

Is the pay of those men proportionably low with their abilities to
work?—I have not found that to be the case. I have found that those
poor, miserable men, who can do very little, have been getting
considerable wages, and in that way a considerable sum has been wasted.

In point of practice, then, the road revenue is made to act as a poor
fund?—Precisely so; I think the road revenue has gone to the assistance
of the poor in that way.

In your experience have you found that the common mode of employing
paupers by day-work, is inefficient both to the improvement of the roads
and to the object of relieving the parishes?—It may have the effect of
relieving the parishes, but I should think it a very bad mode of mending
the roads; inasmuch as these men, when they have got day-wages, will do
very little, and for that reason I employ all our men on piece-work; we
have two hundred and eighty labourers in the district of Bristol, and
they are almost all on piece-work; it is very seldom we employ men by
the day. I was directed by the Committee, at their last meeting, to
produce some more detailed accounts respecting the Bristol district: in
obedience to that order, I have obtained the report made by me at the
end of the first and second year of my administration, which I beg to
submit to the Committee, together with the resolution of the
commissioners thereon.

         [_The following Papers were delivered in, and read:_]


                   EXPENDITURE on the BRISTOL ROADS.

 In the year 1815, previous to the
   alteration of management, there was paid  £. 14,285 2 1

 An unpaid floating debt of                      1,400 0 0

                                             —————————————

 Total expense of 1815, to 25th March 1816                 £. 15,685 2 1

                                                           =============

Alteration of management, commenced 16th January, 1816.

 In 1816, outlay was                         £.16,127 5  1

 Deduct accounts of 1815             £.1,400

 Paid into 5 per cent. fund,
   about                                 340

                                     ———————    1,740 0  0

                                              ————————————

 Total expense of roads, to
   March 1817                                              £.14,387 5  1

                                                           =============

 In 1817, outlay was                         £.15,830 4 11

 Of which, permanent
   improvements cost                 £.1,500

 Paid to 5 per cent. fund,
   about                                 200

 Paid for a general survey and
   plans                                 340

 Whitchurch Bridge repairs               320

                                     ———————    2,360 0  0

                                              ————————————

 Total expenditure for roads,
   to 25 March 1818                                        £.13,470 4 11

                                                           =============


                           BRISTOL TURNPIKES.
Report of Mr. John Loudon MᶜAdam, to a General Meeting of Commissioners,
                             2d June 1817.

Since I had the honour of reporting to the meeting of commissioners on
the 2d of March last, the amendment of the roads has proceeded with
success, and at present there are no parts of the roads of the Bristol
district in a bad state.

Much has been done in partial improvements, which have altogether
amounted to a considerable sum, although not of sufficient magnitude
individually to come within the scope of the regulations of the general
meeting, that restrain improvements exceeding 50_l._ without special
order; several such improvements are still necessary, and some of the
small bridges require to be lengthened in the arches, in order to lead
the roads to them more commodiously, and to widen the roadway on the
bridges.

The statement of the income and expenditure of the year, now made up to
the 25th March, presents a very satisfactory result.

In the last year, a sum equal to nearly five times that of the preceding
year, has been paid into the 5 per cent. fund.

A floating debt, which did not appear in the printed annual account of
last year, but which amounted to about 1,400_l._ has been paid off.

The balances of treasurer’s accounts, which last year showed the trust
to be indebted on the whole to the treasurer 356_l._ are now so much on
the other side, that your treasurers have on the whole account a balance
in hand of 614_l._ and this balance is efficient, because the floating
debt is now reduced to the smallest sum possible, under the
circumstances of a business so extended.

In addition to which, I have to congratulate the commissioners on a
reduction of the principal debt in the sum of 729_l._ 10_s._ 3_d._ and
that turnpike tickets, which were at a discount, are now in demand at
par.

                                     (Signed)      _John Loudon MᶜAdam._

 8th March 1819.

The foregoing is a true copy from the book of proceedings of the
trustees of the Bristol turnpike roads.

                                               _Osborne & Ward_, Clerks.


                           BRISTOL TURNPIKES.
Report of Mr. John Loudon MᶜAdam, to a General Meeting of Commissioners,
                             1st June 1818.

                                Bristol Office of Roads, 1st June, 1818.

Since I had the honour to report to the commissioners, in June 1817, the
business of the roads has gone on successfully, and they have been kept
in invariably good repair under the present system of management,
notwithstanding the roads having been tried by all vicissitudes of the
most unfavourable seasons ever known.

Several valuable improvements have also been effected in different parts
of the district; the very promising state of the finances having induced
the commissioners to employ great part of the savings of their income
for that purpose, instead of applying the whole to the liquidation of
the principal debt of the trust. This great debt has, however, been
diminished nearly 500_l._ while the sum expended on the permanent
improvements considerably exceeds 1,500_l._

                                                        _£._  _s._  _d._

 On the 25th March 1818, there was a
   balance in the hands of each of the
   treasurers, with exception of the
   Bitton and Toghill roads; and the
   balance due to that treasurer has
   been diminished upon the whole
   account; there remained in the
   hands of the treasurers, on the
   25th March 1818, the sum of                               1,987 14  5

 In the hands of the general
   treasurer, from 5 per cent. fund        _£._502 5 11

 Due by the Whitchurch road to the 5
   per cent. fund, and included in the
   general debt                                300 0  0

                                            ———————————        802  5 11

                                                             ———————————

            Balance in hand, 25th March 1818             _£._2,790  0  4

                                                             ===========

It is very gratifying to report to the commissioners this material
amelioration of the funds during the present year, when the income of
the trust has suffered a diminution of 425_l._ 5_s._ occasioned probably
by the depression of trade throughout the country.

It is to be regretted that the directions of the general meetings
respecting the payments to the 5 per cent. fund have not been more
punctually obeyed; but without entering into the circumstances of heavy
debt and other difficulties, which have hitherto prevented payments from
particular treasurers, I beg leave to call the attention of the
commissioners to a consideration of the importance of this fund, and the
use to which it may be most advantageously applied.

The fund was instituted for the purpose of giving the general meetings
the power of extending aid to any division of the roads of the district
that might be in distress. As the favourable state of the funds, arising
from the system of management adopted by the commissioners, gives a very
reasonable hope that such occasion of distress may never again occur, it
may be expedient to consider of the propriety of converting the 5 per
cents. into a sinking fund.

By application of such a sum, amounting to about 850_l._ annually, to
the gradual extinction of the debt of the trust, the means of continuing
several useful and very desirable improvements will be diminished only
in a small proportion, and the amendment of the general state of the
roads will proceed, without entirely losing sight of the justice due to
the creditors, and the desirable object of reducing a debt of such
magnitude.

As it may be doubtful whether under the authority of the present act of
parliament the trustees may legally apply the 5 per cent. fund to the
purpose of a sinking fund, the committee appointed to prepare the new
act may be instructed to consider of this subject, and also for better
securing the due payment of the 5 per cent. fund at stated periods,
along with the interest of the debt, to the general treasurer.

I have great pleasure in being able to continue to give a favourable
report of the conduct of the sub-surveyors.

                                     (Signed)      _John Loudon MᶜAdam._

 8th March, 1819.

The foregoing is a true copy from the book of proceedings of the
trustees of the Bristol turnpike roads.

                                               _Osborne & Ward_, Clerks.


                           BRISTOL TURNPIKES.

  At a Meeting of the Trustees for the care of the several roads round
    the city of Bristol, holden on 7th December 1818, at the Guildhall
    in Bristol.


                   THOMAS DANIEL, Esq. in the Chair.

It appearing that under the triennial appointment of Mr. MᶜAdam, his
office of general surveyor will cease on the 16th day of January next;—

Ordered unanimously, That he be again appointed to that office for a
further term of three years, at the same salary.

Resolved unanimously, That the thanks of this meeting be given to Mr.
MᶜAdam for the zeal and ability with which he has executed the very
arduous duties of his office, from which it appears to this meeting that
the most important advantages have resulted to the roads under his care.

 8th March 1819.

The foregoing is a true copy from the book of proceedings of the
trustees of the Bristol turnpike roads.

                                               _Osborne & Ward_, Clerks.

Does any part of that saving which is stated to have taken place on
those roads, arise from an increase of revenue?—There has been a small
increase of revenue, but whether arising from tolls or a better
collection of the statute labour, I cannot take upon me to say; but that
increase of revenue must be deducted from the saving of 2,700_l._, which
appears in the treasurer’s hands.




                     _Jovis, 11º die Martii, 1819._


        _John Loudon MᶜAdam_, Esquire, called in; and Examined.

Is there any part of your former evidence upon which you wish to give
any further explanation to the Committee?—In consequence of the surprise
and doubt expressed by some members of this honourable Committee, on
that part of my evidence respecting the carrying a road over a morass in
Somersetshire, and the proportions of the materials used upon that, and
the part of the road with a rocky foundation, which I stated from
memory, I thought it proper to write down to the treasurer of that road,
to request the favour of him to send for the surveyor, and know the
facts exactly from him. The treasurer, Mr. Phippen, who is a magistrate,
sent a certificate, signed by the surveyor. There was a certificate,
also, signed by Mr. Phippen; and with it there was a letter from Mr.
Phippen, of explanation; both of which I wish to put in.


                 [_The papers put in were as follow:_]

“I do certify that that part of the sixteen miles of the Bristol
turnpike road under my care, from Cross, over the marsh lands, towards
Bridgewater, is now in the best state I ever knew it, which is wholly
owing to having the very large stones laid at the foundation when the
road was first made more than fifty years since, lifted and beaten very
small. The general strength of the road is from seven inches to nine;
and five tons of stones, I have always considered for the repairs of
this part of the road equal to seven on the other part over the hills.

                            (Signed)      “_Edward Whitting_, Surveyor.”

“I, Robert Phippen, Esq. one of His Majesty’s justices of the peace for
the county of Somerset, and treasurer on the road mentioned in the above
certificate, do hereby certify and declare, that the contents are true
to the best of my knowledge and belief; and the road in question has
been under my constant inspection for five years past; and the surveyor,
Edward Whitting, is a person well known to me, and worthy of credit.

“Dated March 9th, 1819.”

“Letter from Robert Phippen, Esq. to John Loudon MᶜAdam, Esq. No. 9,
Northumberland-street, Strand, London.

“Dear Sir,

“There cannot, in my opinion, be any necessity to lay the foundation of
a road on any ground, even the most soft and peaty, with large stones;
daily observation tells me, that this is a great waste of time,
materials, and money. I have had, for these five or six years past, a
great deal of experience in seeing roads made, one in particular, over a
very soft peat bog, by Wedmore and Glastonbury, in this county. At the
time this new line of road was proposed to be made, a great difference
of opinion existed as to its practicability, and the method to be
pursued to accomplish it. Some of the parties were for laying the whole
of the road over the bog with brush-wood, on which were to be put large
flat stones, and on those smaller ones. We who were the other party,
insisted that a more simple, less expensive, and more permanent method
was to make it with stones alone, broken very small. We, at last,
prevailed, and the system succeeded even beyond our most sanguine
expectations; for this part of the road has stood uncommonly well,
though the travelling on it has been very great, and with heavy
carriages, and the little repairs wanted have been done as an
inconsiderable expense, compared to the other part of the road made on
hard ground over the hills.

                                   “I remain, dear Sir, yours truly,
                                                       “_Rob. Phippen_.”

 “Badgworth Court, near Axbridge,
     March 9th, 1819.

I wish, in reference to the opinion I gave with respect to the statute
labour, to state, that I have to transact with sixty-nine parishes,
respecting their statute labour, in the counties of Somerset and
Gloucester; and that it is in consequence of these transactions, I gave
the opinion to the Committee that I had the honour to submit.

What proportion of the statute duty, by pecuniary payments, instead of
the mode at present adopted, do you conceive might be saved?—I think, if
one third of the present nominal value of the statute labour was to be
regularly paid into the hands of the treasurer, that it would be more
available to the public roads, than the present manner in which the work
is done, and certainly less onerous to the agriculture of the country.


             _James MᶜAdam_, Esq. called in; and Examined.

You are the son of the last witness?—I am.

Have you been employed as a general surveyor upon the turnpike roads?—I
have.

Upon what roads have you been employed?—Upon the Epsom and Ewell
turnpike roads of twenty-one miles; upon the Reading road of six miles;
upon the eastern division of the Egham road, seven miles and a half; on
the western division of the Egham road, eight miles and a half; on the
Cheshunt turnpike roads, of eighteen miles; upon the Wades-mill turnpike
trust of twenty-nine miles; on the old North road, or Royston road, of
fifteen miles; upon the Huntingdon road of ten miles; and on the road
from Huntingdon to Somersham of ten miles; being together one hundred
and twenty-five miles.

How long have you been appointed to them?—My first appointment was in
December 1817.

Had you been previously in the habits of making the improvement of
turnpike roads your study?—I had at Bristol, under my father’s tuition.

The information you have acquired, I presume, then, has been entirely
under your father’s system?—Yes, upon my father’s principles of making
roads.

And those plans which you have adopted, have been entirely conformable
to the evidence which he has given before this Committee?—Entirely
conformable to those principles which my father has stated in his
evidence before this Committee.

Can you give the Committee any information with regard to the revenues
of the different roads under your management?—The gross revenue of the
trusts I have mentioned, of which I am general surveyor, is about
19,550_l._ per annum.

Please to state to the Committee, the state of repair in which these
roads were when they first came under your management?—The roads in
general were in a very loose, rough, and heavy state, much overloaded
with materials, the watercourses much stopped up, and the roads in
general in a very bad state.

What improvements have taken place upon them since your undertaking the
care of them?—The Epsom and Ewell roads were put into a perfect state of
repair during the last spring and summer; the Reading road has also been
put into a perfect state of repair during the last summer; and the
Cheshunt turnpike roads have been put into a good state of repair,
notwithstanding that the improvements commenced in October, and have
been carried on through the whole winter: the improvement is proceeding
rapidly in the other districts; but the three roads I have mentioned,
are the only trusts that are brought into a perfect state of repair. I
venture to speak freely and with great confidence, of the good state of
repair of these three trusts; for the reason, that no credit whatever is
attached to me, except what may be considered due by the careful
attention and zealous execution of my father’s commands. The merits of
the improvements are wholly his own.

Can you state to the Committee the expense with which these improvements
have been accompanied?—The expense upon the Epsom roads amounted to
1,929_l._ 8_s._ 1_d._ in the year 1818; that is the only trust upon
which I am enabled to state the twelvemonth’s expenditure.

In what proportion has the expenditure been divided between the labour
of men, women, and children, and the price of cartage and of
materials?—I have paid for labour upon the Epsom roads, 1,146_l._ 1_s._
2_d._; for materials, 98_l._ 10_s._; for cartage, 227_l._ 16_s._; for
tradesmen’s bills, 342_l._ 0_s._ 11_d._; for land to widen the roads,
115_l._; which makes up the expenditure 1,929_l._ 8_s._ 1_d._ I beg here
to state, that I did not avail myself of any statute duty upon the Epsom
and Ewell roads.

Can you state to the Committee the expenditure upon these roads, in the
years preceding your having the charge of them?—I can; in the years
1815, 1816, and, 1817, which are the three preceding years to my having
the charge of these roads. In the year 1815, there was paid for labour,
379_l._ 14_s._; for cartage, 1,019_l._ 14_s._; for gravel, 486_l._
15_s._ 5_d._; for tradesmen’s bills, 178_l._ 6_s._ 3_d._; making a total
of 2,064_l._ 9_s._ 5_d._ In the year 1816, there was paid for labour
340_l._ 16_s._; for cartage, 1,070_l._ 7_s._ 6_d._; for gravel, 563_l._
1_s._ 10_d._; for tradesmen’s bills, 382_l._ 4_s._ 5_d._ making a total
of 2,375_l._ 19_s._ 9_d._ In the year 1817, there was paid for labour,
339_l._ 16_s._; for cartage, 1,103_l._ 16_s._ 3_d._; for gravel,
551_l._; for tradesmen’s bills, 681_l._ 6_s._ 1_d._; making a total of
2,675_l._ 18_s._ 4_d._; independent of the statute duty upon the several
parishes, which were called forth by the former surveyor.

Do you know the value of that statute duty?—Not having had occasion to
call it forth, I am unable precisely to answer the question; but the
parishes are wealthy, and the statute labour must form a very
considerable amount.

I presume the comparative smallness of the expense which you incurred
for materials must have arisen from making use of the old materials upon
the road, by lifting them according to the plan which your father has
described?—That was the case.

In what state did you find the executive department of these roads when
you took charge of them?—I found at Epsom a person as surveyor, who had
been an underwriter at Lloyd’s Coffee-house, at a salary, as I am
informed, of sixty pounds per annum, and who was permitted to keep the
carts and horses, and do the cartage for the trust. At Reading, I found
an elderly gentleman as the surveyor, who was also one of the
commissioners, at a salary of twenty or thirty pounds per annum. I found
at Cheshunt three surveyors, the trust being divided into three
districts. One of the surveyors was an infirm old man, another a
carpenter, and another a coal-merchant. I found on the Wades-mill trust
three surveyors also, and the trust divided into three districts; one of
these surveyors was a very old man, another a publican at Buckland, and
the other a baker at Backway, with a salary of fourteen shillings a week
each. I found on the Royston road a publican as surveyor there; and I
found at Huntingdon a bedridden old man who had not been out of the
house for several months, and who had been allowed by the commissioners
to apply to a carpenter in the town for assistance, and to whom the
commissioners allowed twenty pounds per annum; this person, who
accompanied me in the survey of the roads, stated, that he could give
but little attention to the management of the road, the salary being so
small; and the state of those roads bore evidence to the truth of his
assertion.

Without entering into individual cases, do you consider that it was
possible, from the nature of the circumstances and engagements of these
parties, that they could give that attention to the roads which their
improvement required?—I do not consider it was at all likely that they
would.

What arrangements did you make in the executive department of these
roads after you took the charge of them?—With the permission of the
trustees, I appointed upon each trust an active sub-surveyor, whom I
required to keep a horse, and to have no other occupation whatever.

Can you state to the Committee the expense of employing such
sub-surveyors?—The salary of the sub-surveyors in general is one hundred
guineas a year; and where the revenues of the trust have been small, as
in the case of the Royston roads and the Huntingdon roads, I have made
one surveyor do the duty of both the trusts, in order that that expense
might be divided.

What emoluments have you yourself derived from your employment upon
these trusts?—I am unable to state the precise amount to the Committee;
for the reason that I have in every instance requested of the trustees
that that consideration might be deferred for at least a twelvemonth
after I was honoured with the charge of the roads; Epsom is therefore
the only road upon which that period has elapsed; and with the
permission of the Committee, I will read the resolution entered upon the
ledger of the Epsom roads upon that subject.

                                                    21st December, 1818.

 We have examined the above accounts of Mr. MᶜAdam, the
   surveyor, from its commencement to this date, and
   find that the sum of 75_l._ 6_s._ 1_d._ is due to
   Mr. MᶜAdam, by the trust, say                              £.75  6  1

 But as no allowance has been made to the surveyor for
   his management, and as that management has given
   great satisfaction to the trustees, it was resolved
   to give the surveyor, to cover all charges, and for
   his trouble, it being distinctly understood for this
   year only, the sum of one hundred and fifty guineas         157 10 ——

                                                              ——————————

                                                             £.232 16  1

Which sum of 232_l._ 16_s._ 1_d._ the treasurer will be pleased to pay
to Mr. MᶜAdam.

                                          (Signed) _T. Reid_,
                                                   _Edward Archbold_,
                                                   _John Webb_,
                                                   _Thomas Calverley_,
                                                   _Thomas Halliday_,
                                                   _William Dowdeswell_,
                                                   _J. M. Cripps_,”

With permission of the Committee I will relate what I stated to the
trustees, upon those resolutions being read to me; that I considered
that sum as extremely liberal, and quite sufficient for one small trust
to give a general surveyor, and were Epsom one trust in a district, such
a sum would be quite sufficient for their proportion of the salary of a
general surveyor; but standing alone, and divided from all other trusts
of which I had the management, and separated also by the London roads,
the necessity of my father’s travelling from Bristol and residing some
time at Epsom, and of so much being required to be done the first year
in a new trust, that sum did no more than repay the actual expenses
incurred. It will be obvious to the Committee that such a trust as
Reading, consisting of six miles only, distant from Bristol eighty
miles, and from London forty miles, and anticipating an equal liberality
on the part of the commissioners there, no sum such a trust could be
justified in giving to a general surveyor could repay even a moiety of
the expense of superintendance; the reward for my services, then, must
be looked for in the convincing proof that my father’s principles of
road-making are, if possible, more applicable, and more beneficial in a
trust where the materials are very bad than where they are good: my only
object in troubling the Committee with these observations, is to show
that unless a district of roads are united, the expense of a general
superintendence would not be paid by any salary such trust could be
justified in giving.

Can you state to the Committee the nature of the materials which you
have employed in the different roads under your care?—At Epsom there are
flints; at Reading a very small, foul gravel, with a thick adhesive loam
attached; at Waltham Cross, on the Cheshunt roads, small foul gravel;
towards Ware, flints; on the Wades-mill trust, flints; on the Royston
trust, flint, gravel, and blue permet stone; at Huntingdon, flint, and
gravel; Egham, flint and gravel.

Is there any particular method which you have employed out of the common
practice, for making use of these materials?—I have bestowed great
labour, care and attention in the preparation of these materials in the
pits, and in their separation previous to their being brought upon the
roads; and also much labour and care for a length of time after their
being laid upon the road, until it became perfectly smooth, hard and
level.

Can you state to the Committee the probable future expense of keeping
these roads in repair, after they have once been put into good order, as
compared with the annual outgoings under the old management?—I am of
opinion that the expense of maintaining these roads in good condition
will be considerably less than the former expenditure; for the reason,
that the better a road is, the less the wear; and that there will be a
less quantity of materials required, when properly prepared, than were
formerly used, when they were brought to the road in a very foul and
improper state.

Can you state generally, whether the proportion of labour, materials and
cartage that you have described upon the Epsom trust, agrees with the
same proportion upon the other roads under your management?—On some of
the other roads, the proportion of labour to cartage will be found
greater than upon the Epsom road. At Cheshunt, in five months, during
which the roads have been put into good repair, I have expended the sum
of 800_l._ forty of which alone was paid for cartage. Upon the
Wades-mill trust, out of 600_l._ expended, not a sixpence was paid for
cartage. Upon the Royston roads, where I have spent 500_l._ not any of
it was paid for cartage. Upon the Huntingdon roads, I have spent 20_l._
a week, the whole of which has been paid in labour. At Reading, during
eight months, 500_l._ were laid out, 400_l._ of which were paid for
labour.

Is it your opinion, that the proportion of labour, wages, and cartage,
is likely to continue the same, in the future reparation of the roads?—I
am of opinion they will; because there will be an increase of labour, in
the preparation of the materials, previous to their being brought to the
road; and also in the formation of the road after they are laid on. By a
more careful and proper preparation of the materials, a much less
quantity will be required to uphold the roads than formerly; I am,
therefore, of opinion, that the proportion of labour to cartage will
continue the same.

It appears, by your answer to a former question, that the expense of
cartage has been much diminished, owing to your making use of the
materials of the old road; will not the proportionate expense of cartage
for future years be increased in consequence of your no longer having
the resource of breaking up the roads, but being obliged to repair them
with fresh materials?—In some degree it certainly would.

In what way is the statute labour at present performed upon these
roads?—Upon two of the trusts only, the Royston road and the Huntingdon
road, I have had occasion to avail myself of any statute labour; the
fund upon the other trusts being more than sufficient to uphold the
roads without having recourse to statute labour. Upon these two trusts I
have derived some small advantage from statute labour.


           _Colonel Charles Brown_, called in; and Examined.

Are you one of the commissioners of the turnpike road upon the Cheshunt
trust?—I am.

How long have you acted?—Several years, eight or ten years.

Be kind enough to explain to the Committee any recent improvements,
which have taken place in the management and repairs of the roads within
that trust?—Since the new method has been adopted by Mr. MᶜAdam, a very
evident advantage has arisen to the roads; they are now extremely good,
and were formerly very indifferent; I therefore attribute it solely to
the present mode adopted by Mr. MᶜAdam for nothing can be better than
the roads are at present.

Can you state to the Committee, whether the improvement has taken place
with an increase or a diminution of the expense?—I believe at about
one-third less; At least I understand that it was taken at about
one-third less.

Has there been any increase upon the tolls upon these roads?—Not since
Mr. MᶜAdam has had any thing to do with them. I have every reason to
suppose there will be a diminution, in consequence of the good state of
the roads.

Having heard Mr. MᶜAdam’s evidence, can you give the Committee any
further information with regard to the means by which these improvements
have been effected?—I conceive that the mode of Mr. MᶜAdam has been the
means of making the roads so much better, that it is only wonderful when
we see it now, that it has not taken place sooner, being founded upon
the best principle possible.

Can you state whether these improvements have taken place by the use of
any new materials, or by a better application of the existing
materials?—By the better application of the existing materials,
certainly.

Have you found this improved system attended with any advantages, in
regard to the employment of the poor within those parishes?—With regard
to the parish where I live, and where my property is situated, I have
seen considerable improvement, since we have had the opportunity of
sending our poor to be employed by Mr. MᶜAdam, who has most readily
employed every one we have sent; and I can state now, that we have not a
man unemployed that I know of.


           _Ezekiel Harman_, Esquire, called in and Examined.

You are a commissioner of the turnpike road upon the Cheshunt trust?—I
am.

Having heard the evidence of the last witness; can you, upon your own
knowledge, confirm the testimony that he has given with regard to
improvement of the roads within your trust under Mr. MᶜAdam’s
inspection, and the advantages derived therefrom?—I can, certainly. It
is a matter of surprise to me, that so material an alteration has been
already made in the roads, the advantages of which are obvious to every
one travelling the road; and, as an additional proof, the coachmen who
are in the habit of driving that road have confirmed this statement. I
have witnessed also a similar improvement in the Epsom road, where the
forward state of the improvement shows an additional proof of the
advantages derived from this system.


          _Thomas Bridgman_, Esquire, called in; and Examined.

Are you a commissioner upon the Cheshunt trust?—I am.

Having heard the evidence of the two last witnesses does your judgment
in all respects confirm the testimony which they have given, in regard
to the improvement which has taken place upon your roads, and the
advantages derived from them?—Most assuredly. I have witnessed these
roads for more than twenty years, in a variety of forms as a
commissioner. I have observed, the failure of two or three different
sets of coachmen and coach concerns down below, all of whom are now
saying, that if this system continues they shall require a horse less.
All these parties were originally much prejudiced against the new
system.


        _John Martin Cripps_, Esquire, called in; and Examined.

You are a magistrate of the county of Surrey, and commissioner of the
roads upon the Epsom trust?—I am.

Can you inform the Committee what was the state of the roads within your
trust, previous to the year 1818?—They were very bad, having no
attention paid to the formation of the road; having the water, in many
places, going over the road; and great inattention paid to the breaking
of the materials, and to the expense attending the carting of them.

At what time did you commence the alteration in the system of
management?—At the latter end of December 1817, when the roads were put
under the superintendence of Mr. MᶜAdam, senior, and when his son
commenced the management.

What alterations have since taken place in the state of the roads?—By a
newer formation of the road; the materials being properly broken; and
the water carried under the road by trunks, or drains, with proper
gratings.

Referring to the particulars of the expenditure given by Mr. MᶜAdam,
jun. in his evidence this day, can you confirm the accuracy of those
accounts?—Yes; and I can explain that the items for tradesmen’s bills
include the wharfing and repairs of Bridges in each year; I can add,
that the statute labour for 1815, 1816, and 1817, amounting to one
hundred pounds each year, which Mr. MᶜAdam has not availed himself of in
their improvements.

Had the system of management pursued by Mr. MᶜAdam proved the means of
giving employment to labourers in the district, and thereby lessening
the poor’s rates?—Very much so; and they have occasionally employed from
twenty to thirty persons, stout able-bodied men, who otherwise would
have been obliged to have been supported out of the parish rates.

Have you in consequence had any persons who were able to work who have
been out of employ?—Between twenty and thirty persons have been employed
for the last three months in breaking flints, and in repairing and
improving the roads, who otherwise must have come upon the poor’s rates;
and all the persons who have been enabled to work have found employment
in consequence of this improvement; that has been the means of greatly
relieving our poor’s rates.

Has the same system been extended to the private roads in that
district?—It has been adopted in some of the private roads of that
district, and with the same beneficial effects.

Can you state any particulars with regard to the necessity there has
been for carting additional materials for these roads?—At present Mr.
MᶜAdam having lifted the roads, has found more than sufficient material
for the support of those roads.

What have been the materials that have been used?—The materials that
have been used are flints chiefly.

During the state of improvement of these roads, have the tolls been
increased or reduced within your trust?—At our last meeting, we agreed,
that at the next letting, the tolls should be reduced from May next, for
the benefit of agriculture in general; and that where two shillings and
eight-pence is now paid, they will have now to pay one shilling; that
with relation to the agricultural interest, will be a reduction of
twenty five pounds per mile.

Within your own personal observation, have you known any other instance
in which a road has been formed upon the same principles as those
adopted by Mr. MᶜAdam?—I had an opportunity of observing in Sweden that
the roads were more beautiful than any I ever beheld; they are formed in
the same manner as by Mr. MᶜAdam, the materials broken extremely small.
The material is the best in the world, as it is rocks of Granite; and so
well do they understand the necessity of breaking them small, that you
never behold throughout Sweden, a fragment of granite larger than the
size of a walnut, for the purposes of the roads.

What is the shape of these roads?—To the eye they appear perfectly flat;
but upon trial by the spirit level, there is a slight degree of
convexity.


        _William Dowdeswell_, Esquire, called in; and Examined.

You are a commissioner upon the Epsom trust?—I am.

How long have you been a commissioner?—About four or five years.

Have you had any opportunity of observing the comparative state of the
roads since they were put under the care of Mr. MᶜAdam, compared with
that in which they were before?—They were very bad when first put under
Mr. MᶜAdam’s care; they are now, I think, very good.

Do you attribute this to the improved system of management?—Totally.

Can you confirm the evidence that has been already given relative to the
expenses of repairing the roads previously to that time and since?—From
the statement made to me by the former surveyor, and from Mr. MᶜAdam’s
statement, I believe the statements delivered in to you are perfectly
correct. Considering the advantage which the public has derived from Mr.
MᶜAdam’s system, I have adopted the same upon the parish roads. I
offered myself to the parish as their surveyor, for the purpose of
carrying that system into execution. I have found employment for all
persons who wanted employment upon the parish roads, assisted
occasionally by persons going to the public roads under Mr. MᶜAdam.

How long have you adopted this system upon the private roads?—Ever since
October last.

From that period the whole of the poor have been employed upon the
parish roads?—From that period the whole of the poor that wanted
employment, have been employed upon the parish roads, or upon the public
roads under Mr. MᶜAdam.

Have those persons been employed by you, by piece-work or by
day-work?—The roads were in such a state, and as I wanted knowledge to
employ by piece-work, I have been compelled to employ them by day-work.

From your experience are you of opinion that these private roads, made
upon the new system which has been adopted, can be kept in good repair
at a less expense than they formerly cost in their bad state?—At a very
considerable less expense than formerly.




                    _Martis, 23º die Martii, 1819._


             Mr. _Benjamin Farey_, called in; and Examined.

You are, I believe, the surveyor of the Whitechapel road?—I am.

How long have you been in that office?—Nine years.

In what situation did you find the road, at the time of your undertaking
the management?—I found the Whitechapel road in a dreadful state, partly
from the neglect of the surveyor, in laying on foul and improper
materials. In the autumn of 1809, it was almost impassable.

Gravel is the only material you have in that neighbourhood?—Gravel is
the only material we find, on or near the spot.

Is the traffic upon the Whitechapel road so great as to render it
impossible to preserve it in good order with the present materials?—It
is impossible to preserve it in good order at all times, with the
present materials; it is past the art of man.

Do you consider the traffic upon that road, as greater than upon any
other road out of London?—I believe it is a heavier traffic; there are
not so many light carriages, as on some other roads.

What species of carriages do you consider do the most injury to your
road?—The carriages that do the most injury, are those with the widest
wheels.

In what way do you consider that they injure the road?—By their great
weights destroying the materials.

Are the carriages you allude to, exempt from the payment of tolls?—They
pay much less tolls. The pressure, or crushing of materials by the wide
wheels, is owing to the wheels not running flat.

Being of a conical shape?—Being of a barrelled and conical shape, and
the middle tire projecting above the others, with rough nails.

Do you consider, that if those wheels were made of a cylindrical or flat
shape, it would be good policy to grant them any exemption from
tolls?—They would be less injurious for being cylindrical; but whenever
the road was at all out of the level, and the weight came on one edge of
the wheel, the road would be destroyed there.

Upon the whole, is it your opinion that there are any circumstances
which justify an exemption from toll, on account of the breadth of the
wheels?—I do not see any at all, for I think they are injurious in every
sense, on account of the great weights they carry.

Do you consider that injury is done to the roads, in consequence of the
use of single shafts in waggons?—Very great.

In what way?—In consequence of single shafts, the horses follow in one
track, in the centre of the carriage; and the wheels also follow each
other in other tracks, and cut ruts: if there were double shafts, they
would naturally avoid former wheel-tracks, which would be less injurious
to the road.

Do you consider it therefore desirable to give encouragement to double
shafts?—I do.

Do you consider the watering of that road in any way injurious?—I
consider that watering that road in summer, is very injurious.

In what respect?—The water separates the stones, owing to the softening
of the loam, and makes the road spongy and loose.

At what periods do you consider it injurious to water the road for
laying the dust?—Before May and after August.

Have you not a practice of sometimes watering in winter, when there is
no dust?—After the most careful sifting of the gravel, a small quantity
of loamy dirt will unavoidably still adhere to the stones, and this
loam, together with a glutinous matter which accumulates in the summer
from the dung and urine of the cattle (which accumulation the summer
watering has a tendency to increase) occasions the wheels to stick to
the materials, in certain states of the road, in spring and autumn, when
it is between wet and dry, particularly in heavy foggy weather, and
after a frost; by which sticking of the wheels, the Whitechapel road is
often, in a short time, dreadfully torn and loosened up; and it is for
remedying this evil, that I have, for more than eight years past,
occasionally watered the road in winter. As soon as the sticking and
tearing up of the materials is observed to have commenced, several
water-carts are employed upon these parts of the road, to wet the loamy
and glutinous matters so much, that they will no longer adhere to the
tire of the wheels, and to allow the wheels and feet of the horses to
force down and again fasten the gravel stones; the traffic, in the
course of four to twenty-four hours after watering, forms such a sludge
on the surface, as can be easily raked off by wooden scrapers, which is
performed as quickly as possible; after which the road is hard and
smooth, the advantages of this practice of occasional winter watering
have been great; and it might, I am of opinion, be adopted with like
advantages on the other entrances into London, or wherever else the
traffic is great, and the gravel stones are at times observed to be torn
up by the sticking of the wheels.

In what state of the road are you in the habit of laying on fresh
materials?—I prefer laying on materials immediately after the road has
had a scraping, in consequence of there being upon the surface of the
road a small quantity of dirty matter and broken gravel, which then form
a sort of cement for the gravel to fix in.

You consider it advantageous to lay on the materials when the road is
wet?—I do, because the gravel adheres closer.

Considering the very great traffic upon the Whitechapel road, is it your
opinion that it would be advantageous to pave any part of that road?—I
think it would be desirable to pave it, within some feet of the footpath
more particularly.

What breadth from the sides of that road would you consider it desirable
to have paved?—About eleven or twelve feet from the footpath.

You would consider it a desirable plan to pave the sides of that road in
preference to the centre?—Certainly.

For what reasons?—If the centre was paved, the light carriages would be
very much annoyed; when the gravel road was good on the sides, the heavy
carriages would go there, and the light carriages would be driven on the
stones from the sides again; if the centre was paved the carters would
be obliged to walk on that road to manage their horses, and would be
considerably annoyed by carriages, horsemen, &c. passing: but if the
sides of that road were paved, the carters would be enabled to walk on
the footpath and to manage their horses without annoyance.

What is the shape of road which, from your experience, you would give
the preference to?—I would have the road barrelled, and made so as that
it would convey off the water in the severe weather in winter, when the
roads are generally bad.

Which do you give the preference to, a road with a flat surface, or one
that gradually declines from the centre?—I think a road which gradually
declines from the centre is by far the most preferable, decidedly so.

What is the degree of the declivity or fall which you would recommend as
the most desirable?—I have paid particular attention to the Whitechapel
road, where it is of the width of 55 feet, and the fall from the centre
to the sides is 12 inches; but to attain this shape, when the road is
worn down, when first covered with gravel, there should be a fall not
exceeding from 16 to 18 inches from the centre to the sides. [_The
witness delivered in a cross section of the road._]

Is it your opinion that any parliamentary regulation with regard to
stage coaches is necessary for preventing injury to the road?—None.

You think it desirable that they should remain as at present?—Yes.

What is the state of the Whitechapel road now, as compared with what it
was some years ago?—During the greater part of the year, it is now one
of the most pleasant roads out of London to travel upon; but from the
gravel being small and brittle, it is soon worn down, by the great
number of heavy weights passing on it. With the small gravel we have in
the neighbourhood of Whitechapel, the road at times breaks up, and
becomes in a bad state; but by the application of water, to stop the
sticking of the wheels, and separate the sludge, in two days they are
found in a good state again.

Have you any other suggestion to make to the Committee for the
improvement of that road, or of roads in general?—On that road, very
great improvement might be made, in not allowing the wide wheels to pass
by paying so little toll, or to carry so great weights as at present; if
the narrow-wheeled waggons were to use double shafts, they would be less
injurious to the roads: even with narrow-wheeled carts, if the two
fore-horses were double, the shafts not being in their track, it would
be less injurious to the roads.


            _John Farey_, Esquire, called in; and Examined.

What is your profession?—I am a mineral surveyor and engineer.

Have you turned your attention to the state of the roads in the
different districts of the kingdom?—I have, very particularly.

Can you furnish the Committee with any information with regard to the
state of those roads, as compared with former years?—I can; I have
particularly attended to that subject; more especially in the time of
the late duke of Bedford, for whom I was an agent. I have since been
employed in nearly every part of England and Wales, and also in
Scotland: and I have statements by me of the various observations I have
made.

You have been employed under the late duke of Bedford, in the
improvement of the roads in the neighbourhood of Woburn?—In the
management of his roads in Bedfordshire, and of all his rural works.

Describe what improvement of the main road has taken place under your
direction, in Woburn?—The whole of the line of the road through Woburn,
except about three hundred yards in different places, is on a very
strong alluvial clay: the road passes over naked sand, only for three
hundred yards; this road had been rendered so sandy and so bad, entirely
by bringing soft sand-stone out of Buckinghamshire, at three miles
carriage, upon the average, in Woburn, and some of that stone was
brought almost to the end of Hockliff Town, where the best gravel
abounds. It appeared, from the remains of a number of gravel pits, that
there had been formerly a great deal of gravel dug in Woburn; this
circumstance I mentioned to the duke of Bedford, and he desired search
to be made; and it was ascertained that Woburn might furnish gravel
enough, adequate to any purpose. In consequence of which, his Grace
directed, when the labourers were much in want of employment, that the
poor persons should be employed in preparing a great quantity of gravel
for the purposes of this turnpike road. I undertook to direct the taking
of this gravel out, and to level the siftings and dirt in a uniform
manner, and lay all the soil again upon the top; by which means the land
was in no degree injured, but, in fact, considerably benefited, by being
loosened to that depth. A great many hundreds of cubic yards of
clean-sifted and picked gravel were prepared in numerous square stacks,
and the trustees at a meeting, or else their clerk, were informed, that
this gravel his Grace offered to the road at the mere cost of labour,
without any thing for the gravel, or the temporary damage to the
occupiers of the land. After a long time of hesitation, the trustees or
their clerk returned an answer, that they did not like that mode,
alleging that their surveyor ought to be allowed to dig materials where
and how he liked, and they would not have this gravel: it lay there,
some of it for two or three years, upon the land. In that time a number
of private roads were making of his Grace’s, and a good deal of it was
used on these. The main road became progressively worse and worse, and
the post-office caused the parish to be indicted. I was then surveyor,
and made an application to the trustees, stating the circumstances the
road was under: that road-trust is thirteen miles in length, two of
which, or rather more, are in the parish of Woburn; there is a toll-gate
in the parish which the inhabitants are liable to all the toll of; some
of them, even in going and returning to and from their fields: the
trustees had exacted very strictly _the half_ of the statute duty,
although the parish had, I think, eleven miles of private roads to
maintain. I mention this circumstance to show there was no default on
the part of the parish; and it was afterwards proved, that they had done
their duty; the trustees merely laughed at the application, and said,
that they had nothing to do with it: we must repair the road, and till
we did so, they would not lay out a farthing upon our road. It happened,
very fortunately for the parish of Woburn, that their act was very
nearly out, and they applied for a new one; the parish opposed it,
stating, that the trustees had misapplied the tolls, and praying, that
the part of the road, through Woburn, should be taken out of their
management; the act accordingly directed, that two-thirteenths of the
tolls should be paid over to the parish surveyors of Woburn, and the
trustees were not to call for any statute duty, or interfere in the
management of this part of the road; in consequence of this, the gravel
mentioned, which remained, and great quantities dug on purpose, was used
upon the road, in a sufficient quantity at once, so as to admit of its
settling down together; for it wanted lining nine inches thick, or more,
and the road has since been perfectly good.




                     _Jovis, 25º die Martii, 1819._


            _John Farey_, Esquire, called in; and Examined,

In effecting the improvement of the Woburn road, did you make use of any
particular mode of applying the gravel?—The gravel, before the time of
using it, had been very clean-sifted, and separated from the dirt and
sand; the great stones had been picked out, and such of the flints which
were of a long and irregular shape, in order that they might be broken.
After laying the gravel upon the road men were daily employed to rake
the gravel into the ruts, and, at the same time, to carefully pick off
the surface any stones that were either soft or improperly shaped, like
long flints, or too large.

What is your opinion, in regard to the form the most preferable for
turnpike roads?—A small convexity in the middle.

Will you state the fall, in any given width of road, that you would
prefer?—Referring to my brother, Mr. Benjamin Farey’s evidence, I agree
with him in wishing that the section which he produced, might be
received by the Committee, as an answer to this question.

Is there any particular circumstance, in the formation of roads, more
particularly applicable to the immediate neighbourhood of London?—In the
neighbourhood of London, and of several other large towns, the materials
that are to be readily procured, are of too tender and brittle a nature
to endure the wear of the heavy carriages; I therefore am of opinion,
that it would be proper to pave the sides of all the principal entrances
into London; but not the middle, as has been done on the Commercial road
and Borough Stones’-end road. My reasons for preferring the sides being
paved are, that it is next to impossible to compel the carters to keep
upon the pavement in the middle of the road, in too many instances; the
fear of damage, from the swift going carriages, occasions them, either
to draw their carts close to the sides, and walk upon the footpaths, or
what is worse to leave their horses in the middle, beyond a train of
carriages. The sides being paved, would enable one of those trains of
carriages to enter London on one side of the road, and go out of it on
the other, without many occasions to turn out of their tracks: which
keeping nearly to the same tracks, upon a well-paved road, would not be
prejudicial; but on a road formed of gravel is entirely ruinous.

Do you consider that the plan of rolling the roads in the neighbourhood,
of London, might be advantageously introduced?—The centre of the roads I
should recommend to remain covered with clean-sifted and picked gravel,
having as many as possible of its large, roundish and smooth stones
broken by means of a hammer before the time of laying it on the road,
and that an heavy iron roller, of from four to five feet diameter, and
not less, might be advantageously used in the first settling down of
this gravel; a small roller, such as I believe to have been tried in the
neighbourhood of London, very heavily loaded on its top, might have a
tendency to force the loose gravel before it so as not easily to be
drawn or to mount on to the gravel driven before it without crushing the
flints. I will add, I am of opinion, that a roller could not be
beneficially used upon a road at any other times but after new coating
it with gravel, or after a frost or the sticking of materials to the
wheels may have loosened up the materials.

Do you consider that the present regulations in regard to exemptions of
tolls to waggons with broad wheels, are justified by sound policy?—In my
opinion, those exemptions have wholly originated in mistaken principles,
and that no wheels wider than about six inches are now, in fact, used
upon the roads, owing to the general and gross deceptions which the
waggoners practise as to the breadth of surface that their wheels roll
on; and that if by any more efficient regulations, the users of broad
wheels were compelled to roll the breadths of surface, which the laws
contemplate, all such wheels would be immediately disused, from the
great additional force of draught which broad wheels occasion during the
average state of all the roads.

Are you of opinion that any regulation by statute, for substituting
cylindrical for conical wheels, would remedy that evil, or justify an
exemption from toll?—As far as I have observed, there are no conical
wheels in use: all the wheels are rounding or barrelled, and it is
comparatively an immaterial circumstance whether they approach the form
of a cone or a cylinder, while they remain so rounding or barrelled,
because their enormous loads roll on a very small portion of the surface
of all those broad wheels. I think that six-inch cylindrical wheels, or
under, are the most practicable and useful, provided the projecting
nails are most rigidly prohibited, which I believe can never be done but
by a penalty per nail upon the wheelers who put in those nails, and upon
the drivers of the carriages who used such roughly-nailed wheels.

Are you of opinion that the penalties now fixed by law upon over-weights
are regulated upon good principles?—I consider the whole system as to
penalties upon over-weights generally bad; the present regulations seem
to me framed upon mistaken principles, and are the source of very great
impositions.

In what manner might the penalties and tolls upon carts and waggons be
best fixed?—It is not practicable very simply or in this way to state
any one scale that would be generally applicable for each breadth of
wheels: below six inches, there should be a rate fixed, which would
apply to ordinary or gate-tolls, and at the weighing machines additional
tolls, which I will call machine-tolls, should be levied upon all
carriages which exceeded the weight, to be regulated in an increasing
scale for each breadth of wheel, so as very greatly to discourage, but
not ruinously to prohibit the occasional carrying of large weights upon
any wheels.

You are not, then, of opinion that it would be right to do away the
regulations altogether in respect to the weights, and apportion the
tolls only to the number of horses?—By no means.

Are you acquainted with any particular weighing machine, which obviates
the common objection in regard to impositions by the machine-keepers?—I
am; Mr. Salmon, of Woburn, many years ago, contrived, and had a patent
(which has expired) for a weighing machine, intended to prevent
impositions on the carters: the machine being so contrived as to be
locked up from the machine-keeper, and accessible only to the surveyor,
and so as to exhibit the exact weight by a revolving index, like the
hands of a clock, which are called clock-face indexes; a great number of
these weighing machines have long been in use in the kingdom, some in
the immediate environs of London: by looking at the index of which
machine, the carter, or any passer by, may see that the machine, before
the carriage is drawn upon its weigh-bridge, is in just balance; and all
the time the carriage remains upon the weigh-bridge, the index exhibits
the weight, so that the carter can take it down; and at the same time
the dial-plate is made an abstract of the law, by there being written
against each of the weights fixed, the breadth of the carriage wheel,
and the season to which that weight is applicable at the commencement of
penalties for over-weights.

Can you inform the Committee of the expense of a machine of this
description?—I cannot; but it is trifling, compared with its advantages,
and an index may be added to a machine upon the common principle, using
weights, placed in a scale; they may be applied to any good machine
already in use.

Are you of opinion there exists any necessity for limiting the number
of horses in carts and wagons, upon roads where there are
weighing-machines?—I am of opinion not; and even doubt the propriety
of calculating the gate-toll by the number of horses which draw the
carriage. Upon private or parish roads, where no machines are erected,
there seems, however, no other mode of regulating or preventing
excessive loads being carried, to the ruin of the roads, than limiting
the number of horses; but in case of the practice becoming general,
which already prevails in many of the towns in the middle of England,
of there being a weighing-machine, kept by a cottager, at all the
principal entrances at the town, at which he is authorized (by the
local magistrates, I believe,) to collect a small toll for each
weighing, for those who voluntarily apply to him, by which means all
loads passing into and out of such towns, may be, and the greater part
of them are now, weighed; and if this were adopted in the environs of
London, (with the addition of a yard and a warehouse, where a carter
who has inadvertently taken up too large a load, either of dung,
furniture, or other articles, of the weights of which he could not be
accurately informed, may learn the same; and where, upon the result of
this weighing, if it should be discovered that he had much too large a
load, he could there throw off and deposit a part of it, either to
abandon it if of small value like dung, or to take it up from the
warehouse, at a future time,) these entrance weighing-machines would
remove the only valid objection to weighing the loads of manure going
out of London, by which the roads are at present more cut up and
destroyed, than by any other description of carriages.

Will you have the goodness to state the principle upon which you prefer
that the tolls should be regulated entirely by weights and breadth of
wheels, without regard to the number of horses drawing?—Because nothing
can be more vague or unsatisfactory, than the latter mode of defining
weights, or preventing the carrying of excessive loads, because horses
are of such very different degrees of size, condition and strength, and
the humanity or otherwise of their drivers are so very different; but
more on account of the very great inequality of the different roads of
the kingdom, which this general regulation is now made to apply to, as
to the number and steepness of the hills: the precautions that have been
used, of setting up posts upon the tops and bottoms of those steeps, to
define where extra horses may be used, are entirely become useless,
comparatively, none of the hills now remain, to any length, with so
great a degree of steepness, as to cause it to be worth any one’s while
to keep horses stationed there, for the purpose of assisting heavy
carriages up those hills for hire; still less has it occurred that any
waggoner has spare horses following his waggon, for which he must pay
tolls, in order to avail himself of this useless permission, to use any
number of horses up the steep hills.

Are you of opinion that stage-coaches require, or would admit of any
regulation with respect to their wheels or weights?—I am clearly of
opinion, that they would not; for in travelling, when it has happened
that I could not get a seat on the front of the coach, I have, through
many long days, carefully attended to the impression made by the wheels
of the carriages upon which I have been travelling (when they have been
among the heaviest loaded coaches) and have compared these impressions
with those of the carts and waggons, particularly broad-wheeled ones,
which we met; from which observations, and other more particular ones, I
am of opinion, that the injury done to the roads by the coaches,
compared with their utility and the tolls they pay, is not such as to
justify any legal restraint on their wheels or weights.

Are you of opinion, that it would be attended with any advantage to the
roads, to encourage, by any regulation or exemption from tolls, the use
of carriages, varying the length of their axles, so as to prevent their
running in the same tracks?—I am of opinion it would be very beneficial,
and have particularly so stated to the Board of Agriculture, with an
example of the tolls over a new road, which are so regulated in
Derbyshire: in addition to which, some inducement in the abatement of
tolls, might be made to those carriages, which now generally use single
shafts like the farmers’ carts and waggons, on their adopting double
shafts, so that all their horses may draw in pairs; this being
applicable even to three-horse carts, as far as concerns the two
foremost. Stage-coaches, for the reasons here alluded to, as they do all
draw in pairs, and very seldom follow in any previous and deep rut, do
far less damage to the roads than otherwise would happen; their springs
also, and swiftness of motion, contributing, very materially, to
lessening their wear of the road.

Are you of opinion that any advantage would be derived from the general
commutation of statute duty?—I have long been of opinion that the whole
principle of statute duty, as now regulated, is erroneous; labour in
kind should entirely cease: and the surveyor collect a more equable rate
on all property in his township; the present regulations for calling out
the teams and making of a road rate, are so complicated, as to be above
the capacity of the majority of parish surveyors, who in most or all
instances collect the rates for the turnpike roads as well as the
private roads.

Will you state your opinion of the statute labour, as it particularly
applies to turnpike roads?—In all the local road acts which I have
examined, one half of the statute duty of each township is apportioned
to each toll road which passes through any part or corner of that
township, which in innumerable instances, is very highly prejudicial; a
due proportion of the fair road rate, as already mentioned, should be
payable to each toll road, where there are more than one in the
township, in proportion (or nearly so, as the quarter sessions might
order) to all the lengths of all the roads within the township which it
contributes to repair.

From your observation of the different roads throughout the kingdom, do
you think that important advantages would be derived from their being
placed under skilful surveyors, acting for large districts?—At present,
the separate trusts are so exceedingly different in extent, many of them
extending only three, four and five miles, while others have fifty or a
hundred miles of road under their trusts, that it seems impracticable,
in many trusts, to employ a very skilful and competent surveyor, on
account of the great and unnecessary expense that would be incurred on
the short lengths of road; but if the legislature should see it right to
enact the appointment of thoroughly competent district surveyors, who
might have the superintendence and control, to a defined extent, over
the officers of the local trustees of turnpike roads, as well as over
the surveyors of the parish roads within their districts, the most
important advantages would result.

Do you not think great inconvenience arises from the great numbers
generally found forming commissioners of turnpike trusts?—From my own
experience, I cannot say that I have seen any evil from the great number
of trustees, on the contrary, the greatest mismanagement that I have
seen in any roads, has arisen from the clergymen of the districts being
almost the only acting trustees; the greatest and most active land
owners frequently having no share in such trusts: the late duke of
Bedford, for instance, not being a trustee in the vicinity of Woburn for
many years after he took an active part in improving the district.


             _James Walker_, Esq. called in; and Examined.

You are a civil engineer?—I am.

In the course of your experience have you turned your attention to the
making and repairing of roads?—I have been employed in the making and
repairing of several roads, and the regulation of others.

In what part of the kingdom have you been employed, and what
observations have occurred to you upon this subject?—The whole of the
works executed under the Commercial Road, the East India Road, the
Barking Road, and the Tilbury Road Acts, have been under my direction,
as well as the roads made under the Bridge and Dock Companies, for which
I have been engineer. The Commercial Road, which is between the West
India Docks and London is referred to in the report of a former
Committee on highways, as particularly well fitted for heavy traffic;
that road is seventy feet wide, and is divided into two footways, each
ten feet, and a carriage road fifty feet wide, of which twenty feet in
the middle is paved with granite. I have a section of the form of this
road (No. 1, in the annexed plan.) The East India Dock branch of the
Commercial Road is also seventy feet wide, ten feet of which is paved
with granite. I have prepared also a section of that road (No. 2, in the
plan.) The traffic upon the Commercial Road, both up and down, is very
great, and necessarily required a width of paving sufficient for two
carriages to pass upon it. I am quite sure that the expense of this road
would have been very much greater, probably much more than doubled if it
had not been paved, and that the carriage of goods would also here been
much more expensive; indeed it would have been next to impossible to
have carried the present loads upon a gravelled road. The road has been
paved for about sixteen years, and the expense of supporting it has been
small, although the stage-coaches generally, as well as almost all the
carts and waggons, go upon it; while the expense of the gravelled part
has been comparatively great. During the thirteen years that the East
India Dock branch has been paved, the paving has not cost 20_l._ in
repairs, although the waggons, each weighing about five tons, with the
whole of the East India produce, which is brought from the docks by
land, have passed all that time in one track upon it, and a great deal
of heavy country traffic for the last eight years, when a communication
was formed with the county of Essex. The advantage of paving part of a
road where the traffic is great, and the materials of making roads bad
or expensive, is not confined to improving the conveyance for heavy
goods and reducing the horses’ labour; but as the paving is always
preferred for heavy carriages, the sides of a road are left for light
carriages, and are kept in much better repair than otherwise they could
possibly be. It is not, I am sure, overstating the advantage of the
paving, but rather otherwise, to say, that taking the year through, two
horses will do more work, with the same labour to themselves, upon a
paved road than three upon a good gravelled road, if the traffic upon
the gravelled road is at all considerable, and if the effect of this, in
point of expense, is brought into figures, the saving of the expense of
carriage will be found to be very great when compared with the cost of
the paving. If the annual tonnage upon the Commercial Road is taken at
250,000 tons, and at the rate of only 3_s._ per ton from the Docks, it
could not upon a gravelled road be done under 4_s._ 6_d._ say however
4_s._ or 1_s._ per ton difference, making a saving of 12,500_l._, or
nearly the whole expense of the paving in one year. I think I am under
the mark in all these figures, and I am convinced therefore that the
introduction of paving would, in many cases, be productive of great
advantage, by improving the gravel road, reducing the expense of
repairs, and causing a saving of horses’ labour much beyond what there
is, I believe, any idea of. The expense of a ton of Aberdeen granite
paving-stones laid in London, or in any similar situation, including
laying, and every expense, is about 25_s._; the cost of the same weight
of gravel is from 3_s._ 6_d._ to 5_s._ The cost of granite paving, 9
inches deep, is from 8_s._ 6_d._ to 10_s._ 6_d._ per superficial yard,
or from 750_l._ to 920_l._ per mile for every yard in width. Guernsey
granite is harder and more durable than Aberdeen granite, but is more
expensive by about 10 per cent. and I think is this much better. Some
stone of very good quality from near Greenock, has been used lately upon
the Commercial Road, it is cheaper than Aberdeen, and appears to be very
durable. The requisites for forming a good paving are to have the stones
properly squared and shaped, not as wedges, but nearly as rectangular
prisms; to sort them into classes according to their sizes, so as to
prevent unequal sinking, which is always the effect of stones, or rows
of stones, of unequal sizes being mixed together; to have a foundation
properly consolidated before the road is begun to be paved, and to have
the stones laid with a close joint, the courses being kept at right
angles from the direction of the sides, and in perfectly straight lines,
the joints carefully broken, that is, so that the joint between two
stones in any one course shall not be in a line with, or opposite to a
joint in any of the two courses adjoining. After the stones are laid
they are to be well rammed, and such of the stones as appear to ram
loose, should be taken out and replaced by others; after this the joints
are to be filled with fine gravel, and if it can be done conveniently,
the stability of the work will be increased by well watering at night
the part that has been done during the day, and ramming it over again
next morning. The surface of the pavement is then to be covered with an
inch or so of fine gravel, that the joints may be always kept full, and
that the wheels may not come in contact with the stones while they are
at all loose in their places. Attention to these points will very much
increase both the smoothness and durability of the paving. I have found
great advantage from filling up, or, as it is called, grouting the
joints with lime-water, which finds its way into the gravel between and
under the stones, and forms the whole into a solid concreted mass. The
purpose served by the lime might also be effectually answered by mixing
a little of the borings or chippings of iron, or small scraps of iron
hoop, with the gravel used in filling up the joints of the paving. The
water would very soon create, an oxide of iron, and form the gravel into
a species of rock. I have seen a piece of rusty hoop taken from under
water, to which the gravel had so connected itself, for four or five
inches round the hoop, as not to be separated without a smart blow of a
hammer. And the cast-iron pipes which are laid in moist gravel soon
exhibit the same tendency.

It has occurred to me, as I stated to the chairman of this honourable
Committee some weeks since, that considerable improvement would be found
from paving the sides of a road, upon which the heavy traffic is great,
in both directions, and leaving the middle for light carriages, the
carmen walking upon the footpaths or sides of the road, would then be
close to their horses, without interrupting, or being in danger of
accidents from light carriages, which is the case when they are driving
upon the middle of the road; and the unpaved part being in the middle or
highest part of the road, would be more easily kept in good repair. I
have prepared a section of a road formed in this way (No. 3 in the
plan), but unless the heavy traffic in both directions is great, one
width (say ten or twelve feet, if very well paved,) will be found
sufficient; and in this case, I think the paving ought to be in the
middle of the road. The width of many of the present roads is, besides,
such, that ten or twelve feet can be spared for paving, while twice that
width would leave too little for the gravelled part. Although the first
cost of paving is so great, I do not think that any other plan can be
adopted to good and so cheap in those places where the materials got in
the neighbourhood are not sufficient for supporting the roads. A coating
of whinstone is, for instance, more durable than the gravel with which
the roads round London are made and repaired; but much less so than
paving; although the freight and carriage of the whinstone, and of the
paving-stones, which form the principal items of the expense, are nearly
the same. Scotch whinstone, or the granite rubble (that is, rough
chippings of granite,) could not, I should think, be delivered into
barges in the river, at less than from 14_s._ to 15_s._ per ton, the
freight alone being from 11_s._ to 12_s._, while the price of Aberdeen
granite, in the same situation, is only from 19_s._ to 21_s._ and 22_s._
Maidstone ragstone in the rubble state, costs about 7_s._ per ton: it is
a limestone, and much less durable than the whin. The carriage from the
river to the road, of all these, is of course the same. Flint, again, is
so much less durable than whin, that it will not bear the expense of
carriage (which may be taken at from 1_s._ 6_d._ to 2_s._ per ton per
mile) from any distance, to make it preferable to the gravel, or paving,
in point of cost, for the roads near London. A double iron rail-road, to
suit the London waggons, which some have recommended, would cost about
4,500_l._ per mile, and would be fitted for waggons only of one precise
width, and for waggons or heavy carts only; while, from the difficulty
of crossing it, it would form rather an obstacle to light carriages.
Blocks of Aberdeen granite, twelve inches wide and fifteen inches deep,
laid in the way of the wheels (as recommended by others,) would be
nearly as expensive; and the eight joints, which would be formed between
the stone and the gravel, by four rows of stone, would be found
extremely troublesome and inconvenient. Both these substitutes for
paving, therefore, though equally expensive as paving, have peculiar
disadvantages; and they have this besides, which is common to them both,
that they make no provision for preventing the great wear upon gravelled
roads, which is caused by the horses’ feet, particularly if (as is the
case in a rail-road) they are confined in one track.

Attention in the forming and repairing of roads, will in all cases do
much to compensate for the inferiority of the material used for that
purpose, of which the improvements in the general state of the highways
within the last twenty years affords the best proof. To form the road
upon a good foundation, and to keep the surface clear of water after it
is formed, are the two most essential points towards having the best
roads possible, upon a given country, and with given materials. For
obtaining the first of these objects, it is essential that the line for
the road be taken so that the foundation can be kept dry either by
avoiding low ground by raising the surface of the road above the level
of the ground on each side of it, or by drawing off the water by means
of side drains. The other object, viz. that of clearing the road of
water, is best secured by selecting a course for the road which is not
horizontally level, so that the surface of the road may in its
longitudinal section, form in some degree an inclined plane; and when
this cannot be obtained, owing to the extreme flatness of the country,
an artificial inclination may generally be made. When a road is so
formed, every wheel-track that is made, being in the line of the
inclination, becomes a channel for carrying off the water, much more
effectually than can be done by a curvature in the cross section or rise
in the middle of the road, without the danger, or other disadvantages
which necessarily attend the rounding a road much in the middle. I
consider a fall of about one inch and a half in ten feet, to be a
minimum in this case, if it is attainable without a great deal of extra
expense. It is in the knowledge of the above points, and of the
application of them in practice, that what may be called the science of
road-making consists, as the observations apply in every case. When a
road is to be formed, accurate sections of the rises and falls of the
ground should always be taken, in the same way as is done for a canal,
before the line is determined, or the levels of the road fixed upon, and
when the course and levels of the road are laid down, the derail of the
work ought to be particularly explained by a specification and plan,
describing the manner in which each particular length is to be formed
and completed.

The quantity of materials necessary to form the road depends so much
upon the soil and the nature of the materials themselves, that it is
impossible to lay down any general rules for them. The thickness ought
to be such that the greatest weight will not affect more than the
surface of the shell, and it is for this purpose chiefly, that thickness
is required, in order to spread the weight which comes upon a small part
only of the road over a large portion of the foundation. When the ground
is very soft, trees, bavins or bushes, are applied to answer the same
purpose, and to carry off the water previous to the materials of the
road being so consolidated as to form a solid body, and to be impervious
to water. Bushes are, however, not advisable to be used, unless they are
so low as always to be completely moist. When they are dry and excluded
from the air they decay in a very few years, and produce a sinking in
place of preserving the road; a thickness of chalk is useful for the
same purpose in cases where bushes are improper, the chalk mixing with
the gravel or stones becomes concreted, and presents a larger surface to
the pressure. If the material for making the roads is gravel, the common
way is to lay it as it comes from the pit, excepting the upper foot, or
18 inches or so, which is screened; but if whin or other stone is to be
used, the size of the pieces into which it is broken should decrease as
we approach the surface, the superficial coating not exceeding a cube
from 1 inch to 1½ inch. If the foundation is bad, breaking the bottom
stone into small pieces is expensive and injurious, upon the principle I
have above described, and also for the same reason that an arch formed
of whole bricks or of deep stones is to be preferred to one of the same
materials broken into smaller pieces, for in some counties the materials
will admit of the foundation of the road being considered as of the
nature of a flat arch, as well as of being supported by the strata
directly under it: but the error in laying the stone in large pieces
upon the surface is more common and more injurious. In all cases,
whether the material is gravel or hard stone, the interstices between
the pieces should be filled up solid with smaller pieces, and the
finishing made by a thin covering of very small pieces, or road-sand or
rubbish, for those interstices must be filled up before the road becomes
solid, either in this way or by a portion of the materials of the road
being ground down, which last mode occasions a waste of the material,
and keeps the road unnecessarily heavy and loose. This observation
applies to the repairing as well as the original making of roads, and
the effect of this covering, or as it is called in the country, blinding
the loose stones, is so evident, that I have often wondered to see so
little attention paid to it. If the material is soft, as some limestone,
this is less necessary, and the quantity ought never to be more than is
just sufficient for the purpose I have described. In the original making
or effectually repairing of a road, it is, I think, best that the whole
of the proposed thickness be laid on at once, for the sake of the road
as well as of the traveller; the materials of the road then form a more
solid compact mass than when they are laid in thin strata, at different
times, for the same reason that a deep arch of uniform materials is
preferable to a number of separate rings. Though I state that an
inclination in the longitudinal section of the road is always desirable
for the purpose of clearing it of water, I am not of the opinion of
those who recommend the road to be made and kept flat or level in its
cross section. The variety of opinions and practice upon this point are
very great; both extremes appear to me to be bad. A road much rounded is
dangerous, particularly if the cross section approaches towards the
segment of a circle, the slope in the case not being uniform, but
increasing rapidly from the nature of the curve, as we depart from the
middle or vertical line. The over rounding of roads is also injurious to
them, by either confining the heavy carriages to one track in the crown
of the road, or if they go upon the sides, by the great wear they
produce, from their constant tendency to move down the inclined plane,
owing to the angle which the surface of the road and the line of gravity
of the load form with each other, and as this tendency is perpendicular
to the line of draught, the labour of the horse and the wear of the
carriage wheels, are both much increased by it.

It is not altogether foreign to the subject to notice here, the error of
forming the inclination of the roadway upon bridges, in the direction of
their length, or across the river, from a section of a curve for the
whole length, rather than from two lines joined together by a curve, as
I have recommended for the cross section of a road. It is to this cause
that the very heavy pull is owing, which must have been noticed in just
getting upon a bridge, which decreases as we advance towards the middle
of the bridge, and which would not have been so much felt, had it been
spread regularly over the whole length (see No. 5, in the plan.)

The disadvantages of a flat road again are, that even if it is supposed
to continue so, it is bad in principle, by doing away the tendency which
a road ought to have, in every direction, to clear itself of water; but
as the greatest wear will always be in the middle of the road, a level
or flat road will very soon be concave; the middle of the road then
becomes the watercourse, and the consequence, if the road is upon level
ground, is, that the water and mud lie upon it, and injure the
foundation and materials; or, if otherwise, that the stones or materials
of the road are washed bare, and liable to be loosened and thrown up by
the wheels coming into contact with their exposed angular surfaces. Many
of the roads in the country afford examples of this, particularly after
heavy rains, and if the country is at all hilly.

The best form for a road, in order to avoid those evils, is,—in my
opinion, to form it, and to keep it with just a sufficient rise towards
the middle, to incline the water towards the sides; and in place of
making the whole width the section of one curve, to form it by two
straight lines, forming inclined planes, and joined by a curve towards
the middle. I have prepared a section of a road in the manner I have
described (No. 4.) and as the lines, excepting at the centre, are
straight, the section may be made to suit almost any greater or less
width, by merely extending them. The section is taken nearly from a part
of a road made under my direction in the country. The dotted line drawn
upon it shows the form I alluded to when speaking of the circular road
that ought to be avoided. I have seen ridges formed in what I thought
well formed land, much after what I would recommend for the form of a
road. The object of forming the land into ridges, raised a little in the
middle, is the same as that of raising the middle of a road to prevent
the water from settling upon it, and what is sufficient for the ploughed
land is certainly enough for a road. If the road is of good stone, four
to five inches rise in ten feet is sufficient, gravel, and other
inferior material, will allow a little more. In this section it may be
worth while to notice the situation of the hedge and ditch, or rill on
each side of the road, a more common, but I think a more dangerous and
worse way, is to form the ditch close to the road, and to plant the
quick upon a raised bank beyond it. I have dotted this mode also upon
the section. The advantage of having the hedge next the road, consists
in its greater safety to the traveller, particularly if a ditch of any
considerable depth is necessary, and in the hedge being supported in its
growth from the ground under the road, without drawing upon the farmer’s
side of the ditch; and it is I believe, this last advantage, which has
led the author of an article in the Edinburgh Farmer’s Magazine, with
whom I am acquainted, to make nearly the same observations. In a length
of road, made eight or ten years since, over a marsh, partly a bog,
considerably under high water, where, from the level of the ground, and
of the drainage, the ditches were obliged to be deep and wide, and
therefore dangerous; I ordered some cuttings of willow to be stuck into
the roadside of the ditch. In about two years they formed a blind to the
ditch, and are now so thick and strong as to be a complete security from
all danger. I may here take the liberty to say, that nothing is more
injurious to roads than the permitting high hedges and plantations near
them, their effect in keeping the rain suspended and dripping upon the
road longer than otherwise it would, and in preventing the air and sun
from drying the roads, is most destructive and very general: and as the
Commissioners or principal men of the district are often the greatest
offenders in this respect, the evil is one in which both the enactments
and the application of them require the strictest attention and
impartiality. After a road is properly made, the comfort of the
traveller and the principle of economy on the part of the road-trust,
both demand that it be not allowed to get much out of repair; the adage
of “a stitch in time,” applies particularly to the repairing of roads,
and though not universally practised, is so well known, that it is, I
presume, unnecessary to state reasons, for what no one acquainted with
the subject at all doubts. The best season for repairing roads is, I
think, the spring or very early in the summer, when the weather is
likely neither to be very wet nor dry, for both of these extremes
prevent the materials from consolidating, and therefore cause a waste of
them, and at the same time, either a heavy or a dusty road; but if done
at the time I have recommended, the roads are left in good state for the
summer, and become consolidated and hard to resist the work of the
ensuing winter.

When I remarked the great improvement in many of the highways during the
last twenty years, I by no means meant to say that they are not still
capable of much greater, or that many of them have not been much
neglected. In many districts this is notoriously the case, and when the
materials are the best, the roads are frequently the worst. There is no
road round London upon which there is more heavy country traffic, than
the first stage of the great Essex or Mile End road; and owing to the
well directed attention of the chairman of the commissioners, and of
their surveyor, there are few better roads any where, excepting in very
wet heavy weather. Indeed I do not think it possible to do much, if any
thing, in improving the superintendance and repair of that road, with
the material at present in use; for the nature of which, as well as for
the exclusion of air and sun by buildings, proper allowance ought to be
made in judging of the state of the roads near London, and when this is
done, and the great wear considered, we may find that in very many
cases, there is but little cause to find fault, and much room for
commendation. The traffic upon the Mile End road is however too much for
a gravelled road, and the expanse for repair for the first three miles
is consequently very great. The same remarks as to conduct and
attention, are merited by the commissioners of other districts, and
their gratuitous services entitle them to the thanks of the public;
while in some parts of the kingdom, including Scotland, where the
material is the very best, the roads are often in the worst condition,
and the most unpleasant to travel upon. The stone is put in large pieces
upon the road, without any covering or mixture of smaller material, and
is left to take the chance of being broke and formed into a solid, or of
tumbling loose upon the road. When a track is once formed in this
stone-heap, it is not to be expected that the horses will be easily made
to move out of it; and unless the thoroughfare is considerable, the road
in use consists sometimes for a long period, of the two deep wheel
tracks, which are always filled with water during the winter, and of the
horse’s path between them, the other parts being covered with a body of
loose stones, and rendered absolutely useless. These observations apply
to some lengths of the most frequented highways, but are more
particularly applicable to the cross roads and the parish roads. I had
the opportunity of seeing the roads in the West Highlands last autumn;
they are formed with judgement, and kept in good repair.

When the highways in a county are under the management of trustees, it
is common to divide them, and to assign a particular length to the
trustees who live near it, without employing any person in the capacity
of a surveyor. When this is the case, the state of repair depends much
upon the observation and attention of the trustee; and the change in the
state of the road often marks out the change of superintendence. A
relative of mine has given up a good deal of his time and attention to a
part of the roads in Stirlingshire, of which he is one of the trustees:
no professional man could, perhaps, do the business better; and the
effect of this attention is very visible. Instances of the same kind are
frequent, but it is not to be expected that trustees generally can both
understand, and have so great a relish for serving the public, as that
the detail of the repairs of roads, if imposed upon them, will be always
executed with the attention they require.

The case of parish roads is still worse, where the inhabitants are,
without much regard to their habits of life, obliged in their turns to
serve the annual office of surveyor of the highways. If such persons
mean to signalize themselves during their being in office, the first
step is often to undo what their predecessor has done, or has not
perfected; and the love of self and of friends determines them to make
sure while they have it in their power, that some favoured roads or
lanes are put into proper order. If the surveyor is, on the contrary, an
unwilling officer, or if the attention to his own affairs prevents him
giving his time to the duties of the office, he avoids the fine by
accepting the charge, pays the bills and wages without much knowledge of
their nature or accuracy, and one of the labourers becomes, in fact, the
road-surveyor; but in every case of annual nominations there is this
evil, that so soon as the surveyor has, by a year’s apprenticeship,
begun to know something of the nature of the business, his place is
filled by another, who comes in for the same time to take lessons at the
expense of the parish. Thus, while many simple trades require, by law,
an apprenticeship of seven years, before the person is thought qualified
to practise with his own capital, the road-surveyor is supposed fit, the
very hour he is named, for an office which requires at least as much
understanding and experience as the average of trades, and in which he
has the capital of all the parish to speculate with. For these reasons,
I have always been convinced of the propriety of an intelligent
accountable officer in each district, but I do not see to whom he can be
responsible with so great propriety, or in other words, in whom the
chief control can be so well vested, as in the gentlemen who live in the
county, who are almost daily witnesses of what is doing, and are chiefly
interested in keeping down the expenses, at the same time having their
roads in good repair.

Whether a board of roads, appointed by parliament, meeting once every
year, and forming a report of the expense and state of the roads in each
county, to be presented to parliament, with such observations as present
themselves, as to improvements, or otherwise, taken from general surveys
made by persons appointed by them, would be useful, by exciting a spirit
of emulation and attention on the part of the different trusts, every
member of this honourable Committee is as able, and perhaps more able,
to give a disinterested judgment than I am; for I conclude, that if
surveys are to be made, engineers will think they have some chance of
being selected as the most proper persons to be employed on the
occasion, under the board. The state of the roads continue to improve
throughout the kingdom. Every friend to his country will be pleased, if
the march of this improvement can be accelerated by a moderate reform,
and carried into remote corners and parishes, where it appears most to
be wanted; but I much question the propriety of such a revolution as
would lessen the interest, which, in their present situation, the
commissioners ought to feel in the repair of their roads, and the
consequence which the appointment tends to give them.

If country road-surveyors are appointed throughout the kingdom, the
nomination might be with the commissioners of the county, and if
friendship or local interest is supposed to operate too far, the
nomination, or the examination previous to election, or the _veto_ after
it, might be with the central or other board, the members of which might
be supposed not to be connected with the individual, in the same way as
pilots and the masters of men of war are examined by the elder brethren
of the Trinity House. And sub-surveyors or surveyors of parishes, might
in the same manner be appointed, or undergo an examination by the county
commissioners and county surveyor, to qualify them to be elected; for it
is to be lamented, that in cases where parishes have, from the reasons I
have mentioned, made the office of road-surveyors permanent, with a
salary: the election being popular, has fallen, not upon the candidate
who was really the best qualified, but probably upon some honest decayed
tradesman, who, having proved himself unable to manage his own business,
which he ought to have known the best, has thereby, and by his long
residence, qualified himself for managing a public business, of which he
probably knows nothing, but whether he does, or does not, rarely enters
into the consideration of the majority of the voters.


In what manner do you think the extra toll for overweight ought to be
regulated; whether by the weight, or by the number of horses used,
without regard to the weight?—I think by the weight most certainly;
unless the object is to discourage the breed of small horses, and
encourage the over-loading and straining, of horses of all sizes. The
number of horses is a very imperfect measure, or rather no measure at
all of the injury done to the roads; for a load of three tons, drawn by
one horse, injures the road as much, to say the least of it, as if two
horses were used. It is not out of place to mention the extreme
disproportion between the penalties for overweight, and the injuries
which they are meant to compensate for, or to prevent; particularly when
this over-loading is the effect of ignorance, which is almost always the
case. When the tolls are in the hands of trustees, the penalty is almost
always reduced; a proof that that fixed by law is exorbitant; but when
the tolls are farmed, and the trustees do not reserve the power of
mitigating the penalty, the poor carman has less chance of being saved
perhaps from ruin.




                     _Jovis, 1º die Aprilis, 1819._


               Mr. _James Dean_, called in; and Examined.

What is your profession?—I am a land agent and civil engineer, and am
occasionally employed to solicit bills in parliament as an agent.

Where do you reside?—I reside in London about half the year, and the
other half in Devonshire.

As an engineer, have you had the means of becoming acquainted with the
roads of the kingdom?—About twenty years since, I had the appointment of
surveyor to the trustees of the turnpike roads from Oxford to Henley
upon Thames, and from Dorchester to Abingdon, in Berkshire; since then I
have been employed about several roads in Devonshire and Cornwall, and,
latterly, in surveying and reporting on an extensive district of the
roads in Somersetshire.

From the observations which you have made in this employment, are you
able to give the Committee any information as to the best mode of
improving the roads of the kingdom generally?—The first and most obvious
improvement is to shorten distances; but even that must be governed by
circumstances often of a local nature; a sound foundation, and the
contiguity of good stone or gravel to a road, should not be overlooked
in choosing a new line, or departing from an old one. In forming a new
line in a level country, the transverse section should approach as near
as possible to the form of the accompanying sketch No. 1, and in a hilly
country to that of No. 2; in the former, the water from one half the
road would be carried into a ditch on the field side, and that of the
other half into a ditch between the footpath and hedge-bank. When it is
necessary to form a road on the side of a hill, the ditch should be on
the higher side of the road, where it will receive the water falling
from the high ground, and so keep the foundation of the road dry. I have
figured the breadths of a good average turnpike road on sketch No. 1,
but the breadth will frequently depend upon circumstances of a local
nature. Near to great towns, it would be highly advantageous if the
centre of the road, for about twelve feet in width, were to be paved
with hard well-squared stones, nine inches deep, and the sides made with
hard rubble stones or gravel. I need scarcely mention, that in applying
the materials to a new line of road, the stones should be broken into
pieces of an uniform size, as near as may be; that the larger should be
laid of nearly an equal depth over the whole surface of the road, and
the smaller, mixed with gravel, should be placed upon them. The
repairing of roads should be conducted in the same manner as far as it
is practicable; but, after all, the only sure way of getting good roads
is, for the trustees to employ men of education and science as their
surveyors. In a few instances, where this has been done, the best
consequences have resulted, and in no case is if more conspicuous than
in the neighbourhood of Bristol, where Mr. MᶜAdam is the surveyor.

Will not a consequent impediment arise to the employment of men of
education and of superior ability as surveyors, from the smallness of
the funds upon small trusts or districts?—For that reason, I would
recommend the consolidation of the several trusts, in each county, into
one general trust, under the authority of one general act of parliament,
leaving the adoption, however, of the acts to the discretion of the
several trusts respectively in each county, making it compulsory only on
the minority, at the expiration of a time to be limited, when a majority
in amount of toll shall call for its adoption, and after insertion in
the provincial papers and London Gazette.

Supposing parliament to adopt your suggestion as to the passing of such
an act, and supposing that afterwards the trusts of none of the counties
should adopt it as a general trust, would there be any objection to the
act being so framed as to admit of adoption by such of the trusts as
might prefer it to incurring the expense of a renewal of their then
local acts?—I do not think there would be any well founded objection to
an act made capable of being so applied; and I am of opinion, that the
making it optional on trustees to adopt it or not, would render the
measure extremely popular, and in the end be highly beneficial to the
country.

Have you not lately prepared a bill for the trustees of an extensive
trust in Somersetshire, including in it nearly all the improvements
which you would recommend to be introduced into a general turnpike
act?—I have prepared such a bill; and it was intended that the same
should have been brought before parliament in the present session, but
the clerk to the trustees having omitted to put the notice required by
the standing orders of parliament upon the sessions-house door, at the
Michaelmas sessions, the trustees resolved to defer presenting their
petition until the next session.

In what respect does the bill which you have prepared differ from the
generality of local turnpike acts?—Many of the clauses of the bill are
not so remarkable for originality, as their combination is calculated to
produce extensive benefit to the country, by conferring larger powers
than have heretofore been given to any one body of trustees; among
others, it empowers the trustees to appoint committees, and make
bye-laws; it binds them to provide a fund for buying up outstanding
securities; and to pay off the further sums proposed to be raised under
the new act, within the term of the act; the tolls on wheel carriages
are made referrible to the breadth of the fellies, and description of
wheel, and to the weight drawn, rather than to the number of horses,
drawing, and are founded on a statement which I had the honour of
delivering to a Committee of the House of Commons in 1809. The standing
orders of parliament require that on or before the 30th of September
next, preceding any application to parliament for any Turnpike Act, a
plan &c. of the roads proposed to be made or altered, shall be deposited
with the clerk of the peace. It often happens, that in the Committee
alterations are made in the proposed line, when the plan deposited
becomes mere waste paper; the seventy sixth clause of this bill provides
for the depositing of a plan, &c. last determined upon, with the clerk
of the peace, signed by the Speaker, and being an authentic document can
be referred to with safety. The bill also provides for the making of
commodious footpaths by the sides of the roads. And as the paving,
cleansing, lighting, watching, &c. of the liberty or borough of * * * *
is placed in the trustees of the roads, the trustees are empowered to
rate the inhabitants, and are also empowered to light the streets, &c.
with gas, and to allow gas to be taken from their mains for the lighting
of private dwellings, manufactories, &c.; so that in all probability the
latter indulgence may pay the greater part, if not the whole, of the
expense of lighting the public lamps. The ninety-third clause empowers
the trustees to pave, light and watch any town, village or place
through, which the roads pass, upon application of two-thirds of the
inhabitants, and is in my view extremely important.

Have you any further suggestions to offer to the Committee that would
tend to the improvement of the roads, or the laws relating to them?—Upon
the subject of turnpike roads, and of wheel-carriages generally, I am of
opinion that such a spirit of improvement has gone forth as, with the
assistance of judicious legislative enactments, will in a few years
carry both to a state of very great perfection; but I cannot close these
remarks without observing on the injurious effect which the large fees
paid to the higher officers of both houses of parliament has upon the
growing improvements of the country, by preventing a recurrence to
parliament to remove obstacles which the prejudice of some will not, and
the incapacity of others cannot permit. The periodical expenses of
renewing turnpike acts is really enormous, when it is considered that
between the fees of parliament on the one hand, and a two month’s
residence in London of the country solicitor, to manage the business,
besides a parliamentary agent in town to assist him, four or five
hundred pounds are soon swallowed up; but I also feel it right to
suggest, that if parliament would allow affidavits to be made before two
magistrates in the county, of the notices directed by the standing
orders of parliament, having been duly given, of plans and of books of
reference being lodged with the clerk of the peace, and of the names of
the persons assenting to, dissenting from, or being neuter in respect of
any proposed new road, the solicitor need not remain in town more than
three days, and the expenses, except in cases of opposition, need not
exceed 200_l._

Would you, as a parliamentary agent, undertake to prepare and conduct an
ordinary road bill through parliament for 200_l._, to include all
expenses, where there is no opposition?—I would undertake any number at
that sum, provided the proofs before mentioned were admitted to be made
by affidavit in the county, in like manner as the proofs are now given
to facilitate the passing of inclosure bills.




                      _Jovis, 6º die Maii, 1819._


          _Thomas Telford_, Esquire, called in; and Examined.

You are, I believe, a civil engineer?

Yes, I am.

The roads which have been formed by direction of the Parliamentary
Commissioners for the Holyhead road, and under your management, having
been described to this Committee as being very perfect, will you have
the goodness to state your opinion as to the present condition of the
different turnpike roads of the kingdom, and what improvements you would
recommend in their direction and management. In the first place, state
to the Committee in what respect you consider the roads of the kingdom
at present to be defective, either in their formation or management?—

With regard to the roads in England and Wales, they are in general very
defective, both as to their direction and inclinations, they are
frequently carried over hills, which might be avoided by passing along
the adjacent valleys; at present the inclinations are inconveniently
steep, and long continued. I might instance many principal lines, over
which I have had frequent occasion to travel: I shall select the great
road from Holyhead, through North Wales to Shrewsbury; and from thence
by Birmingham and Coventry to London. On the Welsh portion of it, those
parts which have been improved under the direction of the Parliamentary
Commissioners for the Holyhead road, the inclinations were formerly (in
many instances) as much as one in six, seven, eight, nine, and ten, the
width at the same time frequently not exceeding twelve feet, without
protection on the lower side, and the roadway itself of improper
construction. The improvements which have lately been made in North
Wales, I beg leave to submit as models for roads through hilly
countries, although these improvements have been made through the most
difficult and precipitous district of that country, the longitudinal
inclinations are in general less than one in thirty; in one instance,
for a considerable distance, there was no avoiding one in twenty-two,
and in another, for about two hundred yards, one in seventeen; but in
these two cases, the surface of the roadway being made peculiarly smooth
and hard, no inconvenience is experienced by wheeled carriages. On flat
ground, the breadth of the roadway is thirty-two feet, where there is
side cutting not exceeding three feet, the breadth is twenty-eight, and
along any steep ground and precipices, it is twenty-two, all clear
within the fences; the sides are protected by stone walls, breast and
retaining walls and parapets; great pains have been bestowed on the
cross drains, also the draining the ground, and likewise in constructing
firm and substantial foundations for the metalled part of the roadway.
From Shrewsbury upwards, the road at present is encumbered with many
hills, all of which might be avoided, or much improved. There is a very
long one between Shrewsbury and Heygate, several between that point and
Shiffnal, two between Shiffnal and Wolverhampton, one between
Wolverhampton and Birmingham, viz. at Wednesbury, &c. Maiden Hill,
between Birmingham and Coventry; Braunston Hill, between Dunchurch and
Daventry; a continued succession of hills between Daventry and
Towcester; afterwards the well-known Brickhill and Hockliffe hills,
besides the very circuitous and imperfect road between South Mims and
Barnet.

Another instance I would beg leave to mention to the Committee, is the
road between the towns of Shrewsbury and Worcester, on the way to Bath,
which consists of nearly a succession of very high and inconveniently
steep hills, although very easy inclinations might be obtained by
passing along the side of the river Severn.

I have mentioned these two instances as examples of the present
imperfections of main roads, and it is quite evident they might all be
readily avoided by lines of new road, easily to be accomplished. These,
I presume, the Committee will admit are sufficient to show the present
state of many other roads in the kingdom, they not having been selected
as more particularly defective than others.

The shape, or cross sections and drainage of the roads, are quite as
defective as the general direction and inclinations; there has been no
attention paid to constructing a good and solid foundation for the
roadway; the materials, whether of gravel or stones, have seldom been
sufficiently selected and arranged; and they lie so promiscuously upon
the road as to render it inconvenient to travel upon, and promote its
speedy destruction. The shape of the road, or cross section of the
surface, is frequently hollow in the middle; the sides encumbered with
great banks of mud, which have accumulated sometimes to the height of
six, seven and eight feet; these prevent the water from falling into the
side-drains; they also throw a considerable shade upon the road itself,
and are gross and unpardonable nuisances. The materials, instead of
being cleansed of the mud and soil with which they are mixed in their
native state, are laid promiscuously upon the road; this, in the first
instance, creates an unnecessary expense of carriage to the road, and
afterwards nearly as much in removing it, besides inconvenience and
obstruction to travelling; the materials should therefore be cleansed on
the spot where they are procured, from every particle of earth, by
screening, or if necessary, even by washing; some additional expense
might in the first instance be incurred by these operations, but it
would be found by much the most economical and advantageous mode in the
end. In all cases, materials in their native state are composed of
particles and pieces of different sizes, it is most important that those
should be separated, and that the largest size should be reduced to not
more than six or eight ounces in weight, and laid in the bottom part of
the road; those that are under that weight or size may be laid on the
top or surface of the road; the surface itself should be made with a
very gentle curve in its cross section, just sufficient to permit the
water to pass from the centre towards the sides of the road, the
declivity may increase towards the sides, and the general section form a
very flat ellipsis, so that the side, at the time, should (upon a road
of about thirty feet in width) be nine inches below the surface in the
middle. Connected with the cross section are the side drains which are
to receive the water, and which drains, in every instance, I
particularly recommend to be on the field side of the fence, with
apertures in that fence for the water to pass from the sides of the road
into them.

The fences themselves on each side form a very material and important
subject, with regard to the perfection of roads; they should in no
instance be more than five feet in height above the centre of the road,
and all trees which stand within twenty yards from the centre of it
ought to be removed. I am sure that twenty per cent. of the expense of
improving and repairing roads is incurred by the improper state of the
fences and trees along the sides of it, on the sunny side more
particularly; this must be evident to any person who will notice the
state of a road which is much shaded by high fences and trees, compared
to the other parts of the road which are exposed to the sun and air. My
observations, with regard to fences and trees, apply when the road is on
the same level as the adjacent fields; but in many cases, on the most
frequented roads of England, more stuff has been removed from time to
time than was put on; the surface of the road is consequently sunk into
a trough or channel from three to six feet below the surface of the
fields on each side; here all attempts at drainage, or even common
repairs, seem to be quite out of the question; and by much the most
judicious and economical mode will be to remove the whole road into the
field which is on the sunny side of it. In cases where a road is made
upon ground where there are many springs, it is absolutely necessary to
make a number of under and cross drains to collect the water and conduct
it into the aforesaid side-drains, which I have recommended to be made
on the field side of the fences.

In constructing the bottom part of a road, (which would, of course, be
made of an elliptical form) if it is upon clay, or other elastic
substance, which would retain water, I would recommend to cover the
whole bottom of the road with vegetable soil, in cases where the natural
shape of the ground admits; I would not remove the original surface, and
where there are inequalities I would fill them up with vegetable soil,
so as to cut off all connexion with clay. Where gravel is the material
to complete the road with, I have already mentioned, that it ought to be
completely cleansed of every particle of clay or earthy substance, and
its different sizes ought to be selected and arranged by means of
riddling or washing; in the use of the riddle, the particles of earth or
clay adhere so much to the stones that it frequently requires to be
exposed to the sun, air, and frost, for several months, and then riddled
over again. In this gravel, the stones are of different sizes and
different shapes; all those that are round ought to be broken with a
small hammer, and in mentioning hammers, I beg leave to draw the
attention of the Committee to their weight, shape and manner of using,
which is of much more importance than any one can conceive who has not
had much experience in road-making; the difference in managing this
operation being not less than ten per cent. and is, besides, of equal
importance towards the perfection of the road; the size and weight of
the hammer I would apportion to the size and weight of the stones, and
the stones should be broken upon the heap, not on the ground; it must be
evident that using round stones will be the means of deranging the
position of those near them, and of grinding them to pieces.

Are you of opinion that the gravel which is found in the pits in the
neighbourhood of London is calculated for making roads capable of
bearing the heavy weights which the great traffic round London occasions
to be used upon them?—I am of opinion that the materials in the whole
valley or plain around London being entirely silicious, or flints, and
easily ground, to dust, are very improper. This must be evident to every
person who travels near London in any direction.

Are you of opinion that it would be advisable or practicable to procure
from any particular part of the country, either by canal, or by river
conveyance, better materials, so as to form perfect roads, without the
necessity of paving them?—That those materials could be procured both by
the canals; and by sea is evident; but I am satisfied that the most
economical and preferable mode would be by means of paving.

Do you consider that it would be advisable to pave the whole of the
roads, or that the paving of the centre or sides, as has been
recommended by some witnesses, would be sufficient?—I apprehend that the
paving a proper width in the centre would be quite sufficient, gravel
might be proper enough for the sides, upon the same principle that we,
in all new roads which are constructed, make use of metalling, or broken
stones on the middle part of the road, for about from sixteen to
eighteen or twenty feet in breadth, and leave the sides gravelled and
kept dry; this, in general, forms a very perfect road.

Is there any principle which you would think proper to recommend in
regard to the shape of the stones to be used in paving roads?—I am of
opinion that the general shape of the stones at present used for paving,
and the modes of distributing them are very imperfect, the lower part of
the stones being of a triangular wedge-like shape, which, instead of
enabling them to resist the weights which come upon them; easily
penetrate into the substratum; the stones are also broken of an unequal
size. The remedies for these defects are obvious, they should be as
nearly as possible of a cubical form, its lower bed having an equal
surface with its upper face; they should be selected as nearly as
possible of an equal size, and they should never be of great length on
the face.

In quarrying and preparing the stones would there be any additional
expense in forming them into the cubical shape now recommended?—There
would certainly be an additional expense in the preparation, because
there would be more work required in the dressing, and many stones must
be rejected which are now used; but I think the additional expense would
be very well bestowed.

Are you of opinion that great injury is done to turnpike roads by the
heavy weights carried in waggons upon them?—I am.

Are you of opinion that any breadth of wheels for those waggons will
justify the present exemption from tolls?—It certainly ought not.

In what manner would you recommend that the tolls should be apportioned
to the weights carried by waggons on those roads?—I am of opinion that
the most advisable mode would be to apportion the tolls to the weight
carried on each wheel, without reference to the breadth, provided it is
not allowed to be less than four inches.

For the purpose of assessing the tolls in this instance would it not be
necessary that the waggon should be weighed at every turnpike
gate?—There ought to be a power to do it, but there might be a check by
means of toll tickets, similar to what is done upon navigable canals.

With a view of establishing good roads generally throughout the kingdom,
and of keeping them in repair upon the most economical plan, what
limitation would you propose as to the actual weight each carriage
should be allowed to carry?—I should think it should never exceed four
tons, which should be a ton upon each wheel; when it exceeds that weight
the best materials which can be procured for road-making must be
deranged and ground to pieces.




                     _Martis, 11º die Maii, 1819._


              Mr. _Robert Perry_, called in; and Examined.

You hold a situation in the Post-office?—Yes, under Mr. Johnson,
inspector of the mails in the Post-office.

Since the examination of Mr. Johnson before this Committee, has the
Post-office received any further report on the state of any of the roads
near the Metropolis?—Yes; one that is between Staines and Bagshot, which
I have brought with me.


                       [_Delivered in, and read:_]

 “State of the Turnpike Road between Staines and Bagshot, May 4th, 1819.

From Staines Bridge to Egham the form of the road has been considerably
altered for the better, with plenty of watercourses and arched drains:
through Egham town the dirt has been entirely removed, and a very
plentiful supply of well-sifted gravel laid on, which will in a short
time make a good hard road. The hill likewise has recently been covered
with a thick coat of good stones, which will require a little time to
cement; from thence the road is greatly improved; the sides are pared
down, and kept particularly clean.

At Virginia Water every thing appears to have been done to the hills,
that the time and sandy nature of the soil would permit; it is now in a
good form, and level.

From Virginia Water Hill, by Broom Hill Hut, the road has been well
scraped, the watercourses opened, and the sides kept clean, and is in a
very good state all the way to Bagshot.

                                       (Signed)      _Samuel Maddocks_.”


          ABSTRACT OF RETURNS OF TURNPIKE TRUSTS ROUND LONDON.

 ──────────────┬───────────┬─────────┬──────────────┬──────────────┬──────────────
 NAME OF TRUST.│  ACTS OF  │LENGTH OF│  AMOUNT OF   │  EXPENSES,   │    DEBT.
               │PARLIAMENT.│  ROAD.  │ TOLLS, 1818. │    1818.     │
 ──────────────┼───────────┼─────────┼──────────────┼──────────────┼──────────────
 Surrey New    │ 26, 47, & │  6   440│ £.9,210 -- --│ £.9,210 -- --│ £.9,000 -- --
   Road        │ 58 Geo. 3 │ M.  Yds.│              │              │
               │           │         │              │              │
 City Road     │43 Geo. 3.c│  1   440│   1,645 -- --│   1,661  6  4│   1,623 12  6
               │    68.    │ M.  Yds.│              │              │
               │           │         │              │              │
 St.           │7, 8, & 29 │  4 1,584│   3,960 -- --│   3,808 16 10│   3,500 -- --
   Mary-le-Bone│ G.3. 23 & │ M.  Yds.│              │              │
               │  48 G.3.  │         │              │              │
               │           │         │              │              │
 Kensington    │  35 & 51  │ 17      │14,660 Tolls. │  12,933 18  8│  11,500 -- --
               │  Geo. 3.  │ M.      │              │              │
               │           │         │              │              │
 Cannon Street │27 Geo. 2. │  1   747│   1,167 --  6│     962  9  2│   3,519 18  6
               │5 & 42 Geo.│ M.  Yds.│              │              │
               │    3.     │         │              │              │
               │           │         │              │              │
 New Cross     │  24 May   │ 39   660│  11,833  8  3│  11,660 11  8│   2,464 16 --
               │ 1802, 27  │ M.  Yds.│              │              │
               │ May 1809. │         │              │              │
               │           │         │              │              │
 Whitechapel   │  25 & 43  │ 34   220│  12,450 -- --│  13,086  2  1│   2,300 -- --
               │  Geo. 3.  │ M.  Yds.│              │              │
               │           │         │              │              │
 Surrey and    │  42 & 58  │ 57   798│  14,606 10 --│  14,758 18  7│   3,750 -- --
   Sussex      │  Geo. 3.  │ M.  Yds.│              │              │
               │           │         │              │              │
 Highgate and  │41 Geo. 3. │ 20      │  11,536 -- --│  14,183 17  2│   7,900 -- --
   Hampstead   │           │ M.      │              │              │
               │           │         │              │              │
 Hackney       │54 Geo. 3. │  6   880│   4,355 -- --│   3,942 -- --│   2,100 -- --
               │           │ M.  Yds.│              │              │
               │           │         │              │              │
 Old Street    │55 Geo. 3. │  1   880│   1,520 -- --│   1,255 -- --│
               │           │ M.  Yds.│              │              │
               │           │         │              │              │
 Stamford Hill │55 Geo. 3. │ 20   880│  10,540 -- --│  11,393 -- --│  15,000 -- --
               │           │ M.  Yds.│              │              │
               │           │———   ———│  —————— —— ——│  —————— —— ——│  —————— —— ——
               │           │210   489│£.97,482 18  9│£.98,856 --  6│£.62,658  7 --
               │           │ M.   Yds│              │              │
               │           │         │  —————— —— ——│  —————— —— ——│  —————— —— ——
               │           │         │£.464.4.      │£.470.14.     │£.298.7.
               │           │         │p’Mile.       │p’Mile.       │p’Mile.
 ──────────────┴───────────┴─────────┴──────────────┴──────────────┴──────────────




                                 REPORT
                                  FROM
                            SELECT COMMITTEE
                                   ON
                         MR. M’ADAM’S PETITION,
                                  AND
                        _EXTRACTS FROM EVIDENCE_
RELATING TO HIS IMPROVED SYSTEM OF CONSTRUCTING AND REPAIRING THE PUBLIC
                         ROADS OF THE KINGDOM.


  _Ordered, by_ The House of Commons, _to be Printed, 20th June 1823_.




                                REPORT.


  THE SELECT COMMITTEE appointed to take into consideration the Petition
    of Mr. MᶜADAM, and to report to the House, whether any and what
    further pecuniary Grant shall be made to him, either by way of
    payment of his Expenses or as a remuneration for his Services, for
    having introduced into practice an improved System of constructing
    and repairing the PUBLIC ROADS of the Kingdom, or for the management
    of the Funds applicable to the same;—HAVE, pursuant to the Order of
    the House, examined the matters to them referred, and have agreed
    upon the following REPORT:

In presenting to the House the result of their inquiry into the claim
preferred by Mr. MᶜAdam for a compensation for his services, in
consequence of his having devised and introduced into practice an
improved and economical system of repairing, making and managing the
Turnpike Roads of the Kingdom; your Committee will notice, in the first
place, the proceedings which have taken place upon this subject previous
to the institution of the inquiry in which they have been engaged.

It appears from the correspondence and documents obtained from the
Treasury, as well as from the Reports of former Committees of the House,
appointed to inquire into the state of the Highways of the Kingdom, that
the first application made by Mr. MᶜAdam for payment of his expenses,
and remuneration for his services, was in November 1819. This
application was referred by the Lords Commissioners of His Majesty’s
Treasury, by letter, to the Postmasters General, for explanation and
information; who, in reply, transmitted a Report from Mr. Johnson, the
Superintendent of Mailcoaches, stating as follows:—

“As I travel rapidly over great distances, and my attention is usually
much occupied with the immediate business of the office, I cannot speak
with accuracy about particular and local alterations; but I feel myself
well warranted in stating, that whenever I have found any thing done
under Mr. MᶜAdam’s immediate direction, or by his pupils, or even in
imitation of his plan and principles, the improvement has been most
decisive, and the superiority over the common method of repairing roads
most evident; and, as Superintendent of Mailcoaches, I have abundant
reason to wish that Mr. MᶜAdam’s principles were acted upon very
generally: if they were, a pace which in winter, or any bad weather,
cannot be accomplished without difficulty, would become perfectly easy;
to say nothing of the comfort and safety of the traveller, and the
credit to humanity in lessening the labour of the animals. I may add,
although so much has been accomplished, the Postmasters General could
still expedite the conveyance of the Mails, and bring the arrangement of
the Posts nearer to perfection, if the Roads were universally as much
improved as the practice of Mr. MᶜAdam’s plan would effect.

                                            (Signed)      CHA. JOHNSON.”

 _General Post Office,_ }
   _Dec. 8, 1819._”     }

“As one instance of the benefit of Mr. MᶜAdam’s improvement, I beg to
mention that the Mail last winter lost ten, fifteen, and twenty minutes,
in passing from Staines to Bagshot; but now the time is exactly kept.

                                                    (Signed)      C. J.”

And the Post Masters General also concluded their Report to the Treasury
by observing, “That with respect to the road near Staines, to which he
alludes, we had found it necessary to give notice of indictment, which
has been prevented by the Commissioners resorting to Mr. MᶜAdam’s
assistance and advice, which has produced the excellent road mentioned
by the Superintendent.

“The Road from Newbury, through Reading, to Twyford, has been so much
improved, that the Mailcoach has been better enabled to keep its time
than heretofore, and we are convinced that if the roads near London were
improved in a similar manner, considerable advantages would be obtained
to the correspondence in general, but particularly in places from ninety
to one hundred miles distant.”

In February, the Lords Commissioners of His Majesty’s Treasury received
a representation from several noblemen and gentlemen, urging in very
strong terms the claim of Mr. MᶜAdam to remuneration for the services he
had rendered to the Public. This document, as well on account of the
grounds upon which the remuneration is stated to have been merited, as
also from its having been so numerously and respectively signed, well
deserves the attention of the House. Mr. Harrison, by desire of their
Lordships, transmitted this certificate with a letter to the Postmasters
General; in which, amongst other observations, and alluding to the
recommendation in favour of Mr. MᶜAdam before mentioned, he writes as
follows:—“These testimonials are of so highly respectable a nature from
the station and character of the individuals who have signed them, and
are so decisive as to the merit, not only of the system itself, but also
of Mr. MᶜAdam’s personal labours and exertions in reducing it into
practice; and as to the great advantages which the Public have already
derived therefrom on several important lines of road in different parts
of the Kingdom, that my Lords could not hesitate a moment in affording
to any application, which Mr. MᶜAdam may be advised to make to
Parliament for remuneration for these services, their perfect and entire
concurrence.”

And the Postmasters General in the same letter are directed, after
taking into their consideration these testimonials, together with any
subsequent information they may have acquired, to report whether the sum
of 2,000_l._ or any other sum might, in their opinion, be advanced to
Mr. MᶜAdam, to relieve him from the difficulties under which he then
laboured, and until the pleasure of Parliament shall be obtained; to
which the Postmasters General reply by letter of 23d February 1820, in
still stronger terms of commendation of the services of Mr. MᶜAdam,
stating that “they consider Mr. MᶜAdam’s system of making and repairing
roads as deserving of every encouragement, that its beneficial results
are acknowledged in every part of the various districts of the country
where the trustees of roads have availed themselves of his assistance
and suggestions, that he has in the most disinterested manner given
every facility to other persons with the same general object; and that
the observations of their Surveyor of Mailcoaches, enclosed in their
Report of the 20th December, have acquired additional force from the
experience of the last two months, in which the mail coaches have had to
contend with unusual difficulties; for it has been evident on such parts
of roads where Mr. MᶜAdam’s system has been pursued, the public mails
have experienced less interruption than where the old system was
persisted in; and their Lordships conclude their letter by recommending
the advance of 2000_l._”

In the session of 1819, a Select Committee was appointed to take into
consideration the Acts in force regarding the Turnpike Roads and
Highways of the Kingdom, and the expediency of additional regulations
for their better repair and preservation. This Committee reported, in
the most decided terms, as to the success of Mr. MᶜAdam’s system. The
following is a short extract from that Report: “The admirable state of
repair into which the roads under Mr. MᶜAdam’s system were brought
attracted very general attention, and induced the commissioners of
various districts to apply for his assistance or advice. The general
testimony borne to his complete success wherever he has been employed,
and the proof that his improvements have been attended with an actual
reduction of expense, while they have afforded the most useful
employment to the poor, induce your Committee to attach a high degree of
importance to that which he has already accomplished. The imitations of
his plans are rendered easy by their simplicity, and by the candour with
which he has explained them, although ability in the surveyor to judge
of their application must be understood as an essential requisite.”

In session 1820, Mr. MᶜAdam presented a petition to Parliament, praying
for the payment of his expenses, and such reward for his services as the
House in its justice and wisdom should think fit to grant. This petition
was referred for consideration to the Select Committee then sitting upon
the state of the Highways, who had the account of Mr. MᶜAdam’s expenses
up to 1814 submitted to them; and from which account it appears, that
the distance travelled by Mr. MᶜAdam was 30,000 miles, and that there
were 1,920 days employed in this service; that reckoning by the rules of
allowance made by the Post Office to their surveyors, the expense of the
above travelling amounted to the sum of 5,019_l._ 6_s._ which sum Mr.
MᶜAdam states to have been expended by him on this service up to August
1814.

Mr. MᶜAdam further states, in his Evidence before the Committee; “This
account is made from memoranda in my possession, and I have made the
same with such care and attention, that I am ready to make oath that it
is to the best of my knowledge and belief correct, whenever I may be
required so to do.” Which he afterwards did in the following terms:

  “I, John Loudon MᶜAdam, do hereby voluntarily make oath that the
    above-mentioned account delivered by me to the Committee on Turnpike
    Roads and Highways, is to the best of my knowledge and belief
    correct.”

  “Witness my hand this 8th day of March 1821.

                                      (Signed)      JNO. LOUDON MᶜADAM.”

 “_Sworn before me at Pontefract,_ }
     _8th March 1821._             }

                                 (Signed)      G. ALDERSON, _Alderman_.”

Your Committee, in their Report of the 18th of July 1820, state as
follows:

“The attention of your Committee has been directed to the claim of Mr.
John Loudon MᶜAdam for public remuneration, contained in his petition
referred to them by the House.

“Your Committee apprehend, that the ability, industry and zeal of Mr.
MᶜAdam in his successful pursuit of the best means for constructing
roads are become matters of general notoriety. It appears that Mr.
MᶜAdam first directed the public attention to this important fact, that
angular fragments of hard materials, sufficiently reduced in size, will
coalesce or bind, without other mixture, into a compacted mass of stone
nearly impenetrable to water, which being laid almost flat, so as to
allow of carriages passing freely upon all parts of the road, will wear
evenly throughout, not exhibiting the appearance of ruts or of any other
inequalities. This principle, once brought under notice, may appear
sufficiently obvious; but Mr. MᶜAdam has had the honour at much expense
of labour, of time, and of his private fortune, to bring it into
practice on an extensive scale.

“Your Committee are therefore clearly of opinion, that Mr. MᶜAdam is
entitled to reward, and they approve of the advance made to him by the
Postmaster General, under sanction of the Treasury. Your Committee have
called for the correspondence which passed upon that occasion. They have
examined Mr. Freeling, Chief Secretary to the Post Office; Mr. Johnson,
Surveyor or Superintendent of Mailcoaches; and they have received
statements from Mr. MᶜAdam, in support of his further claim, all of
which they insert in the Appendix; and after a full investigation of the
matters submitted to them, your Committee are of opinion, that Mr.
MᶜAdam is entitled to further reward for his services, but they think it
much better in all respects to leave the amount to the Post Office, than
to mention any specific sum themselves.

“While every individual throughout the nation, and almost every concern
is benefited by good roads, the Post Office derives peculiar and more
direct advantage from them, combined with constant and accurate
intelligence respecting their state; your Committee, therefore, consider
the Post Office best able to form a correct opinion upon the subject,
and they moreover feel that a debt is due from the revenue of the Post
Office, to be paid on any extraordinary occasion to the Roads of Great
Britain, a debt contracted by the exemption, however properly given, of
their carriages from toll.

“On all these grounds your Committee think it right to refer the
Petition of Mr. MᶜAdam to the Postmasters General, under the sanction of
the Treasury, with their favourable recommendation.”

And in the Appendix to that Report it will be found from the Evidence of
Mr. Freeling, “That the Post Office did not take Mr. MᶜAdam’s services
into consideration, or suppose that 2,000_l._ would be a sufficient
remuneration for those services; they merely stated, in answer to papers
from the Treasury, that they considered it would be right to _advance_
to Mr. MᶜAdam the sum of 2,000_l._ and consider Mr. MᶜAdam’s claims as
establishing a ground for further remuneration.”

In consequence of that Report the Lords Commissioners of His Majesty’s
Treasury again, on the 23d of September, refer the subject to the
Postmasters General, who, considering the first sum of 5,019_l._ 6_s._
to be admitted as proved before the Committee, recommended the payment
of his expenses from 1814, to be calculated upon the same principle as
the travelling allowance is made to the Superintendent of the
Mailcoaches, amounting to 1,837_l._ 17_s._ 6_d._ and they further
propose the sum of 2,000_l._ or 2,500_l._ to be granted to Mr. MᶜAdam,
as a moderate compensation for his services; upon this the Lords
Commissioners of the Treasury issued a second sum of 2,000_l._ stating
that their Lordships, adverting to the large amount of Mr. MᶜAdam’s
claims, cannot feel themselves justified in issuing any further sum to
him on account thereof, without the express authority of Parliament for
that purpose. On the 5th December 1820, Mr. MᶜAdam again addressed a
letter to the Lords of the Treasury, which was transmitted to the Post
Office; and the Postmasters General, referring to their former letter,
observe that they have no difficulty in bearing their testimony to the
services of Mr. MᶜAdam, and to the benefits which the Public were likely
to derive from them, and also stated that in their opinions the charges
were reasonable.

The last Memorial presented by Mr. MᶜAdam was to the Postmasters
General, who, in transmitting it to the Treasury, observe, “The
favourable opinions which we entertained and expressed in our former
Reports upon this subject have been confirmed by experience; and that by
employing Mr. MᶜAdam to survey the roads in Lancashire the most
beneficial results are likely to follow.”

Having thus given a succinct and connected account of these different
proceedings, and having taken into their consideration the whole of the
correspondence which has passed previous to this inquiry between the
Lords Commissioners of His Majesty’s Treasury and the Postmasters
General, together with the several Memorials presented at different
periods to these departments by the Petitioner, with the documents
accompanying them, and having considered Mr. MᶜAdam’s statement of his
case, and the proof adduced in support of it, which accompany this
Report, your Committee are of opinion that Mr. MᶜAdam has, by means of
great assiduity, skill, and many years personal labour, and at a
considerable expense, out of his private property, introduced into very
extensive practice a system of repairing, making and managing the
turnpike roads and highways of the kingdom, from which the Public have
derived most important and valuable advantages.

That in addition to the notoriety of the fact, that the improved
condition of the public roads is in a great degree to be ascribed to the
ability, zeal, and indefatigable exertions of Mr. MᶜAdam, it now for the
first time appears, that Mr. MᶜAdam has gratuitously given his personal
attention upon, and advice and assistance to, no less a number than
seventy turnpike trusts in twenty-eight counties of the kingdom, from
many of which he has not received the payment even of his expenses; that
he has, for a considerable length of time, been engaged in an extensive
correspondence with persons connected with the management and
improvement of roads, affording, in the most unreserved manner,
information and instruction wherever required; and that he has attended,
during several sessions of Parliament, the Committee of this House, for
the same purpose of communicating information: all which services,
together with the assistance he has been called upon to give to the Post
Office, he has rendered without reward or pecuniary compensation of any
kind, beyond the sum of 4,000_l._ advanced to him by the Lords
Commissioners of the Treasury, in part payment of his expenses.

Looking to the result of these services as affecting the community at
large; the increase of comfort, convenience and safety to the Public
generally; the diminution of expense in the wear and tear of carriages
of all descriptions; the reduction of horse-labour, and consequent
expense of horses; the relief the oppressive burthen of the poor rates,
by the additional means created for employing the surplus labouring
population of the encumbered parishes; the abolition in many instances
of a great part, and in some, of the whole of the statute duty
complained of by the agriculturists, and the very essential benefit to
the agricultural, commercial and manufacturing classes, by the more easy
and equal diffusion of the produce of the soil over the various parts of
the kingdom; the free as well as rapid circulation of commercial
capital, thereby adding greatly to the national wealth and prosperity
which this system has materially contributed to effect; the Committee
cannot hesitate to express their opinion, in concurrence with that
already pronounced by the Heads of the Department of the Post Office,
that the sum of 2,000_l._ or 2,500_l._, in addition to his expenses, to
be calculated after the same rate of allowance as is granted by that
office to the Surveyor or Superintendent of Mailcoaches, will be but a
moderate compensation to Mr. MᶜAdam for his great exertions and very
valuable services.

The Committee, with a view to abridge the Appendix, have omitted to
include several testimonials forwarded to them from different innkeepers
and postmasters, stating the advantages they have derived from the
improvement of the roads under Mr. MᶜAdam’s system; but which tend to
confirm the general opinion favourable to the system.

It appears that Mr. MᶜAdam has held, from the year 1816 to the present
time, and now holds, the situation of general surveyor of the Bristol
Turnpike Roads at a salary, the first year, of 400_l._ and each
subsequent year, of 500_l._; but taking into consideration, that out of
his annual salary 200_l._ is for expenses incident to his Office, the
remaining sum of 300_l._ is, in the opinion of this Committee, not more
than an adequate payment for the constant and laborious duties attached
to the situation, and cannot, or ought not, to be considered as
constituting any remuneration to Mr. MᶜAdam for his other distinct and
important services.

It further appears, that the three sons of Mr. MᶜAdam are employed as
general surveyors upon various lines of road in different parts of the
Kingdom; that they have been and are competitors with all other road
surveyors, over whom they possess no other advantage than such as their
superior intelligence, skill and industry entitle them to, having no
exclusive or preferable privilege whatever; that they have improved, and
at the same time have very considerably reduced the expense upon almost
all the roads under their management; and that their incomes, when
diminished by the necessary disbursements and payments to the persons
acting under them, and their own expenses, cannot be deemed too large a
sum for their own individual services; but, on the contrary, that they
have returned to the Public for the amount of their gains a fair and
full measure of benefit, by the personal activity, skill and labour so
conspicuous in the management of the roads, and the funds of the trusts
under their superintendence; that two of the three had relinquished
situations of profit to afford their aid in giving effect to and
carrying the system into execution, and are justly entitled to the
fruits of their industry, and hard-earned incomes, without the
participation of any other person; and it does not appear that the
Petitioner has profited in any manner from the salaries allowed to his
sons.

With respect to the petition of Mr. Wingrove, referred to your
Committee, it appears, from the Petitioner’s own statement, that his
object is a compensation for services which he considers himself
individually to have rendered to the public, a claim which your
Committee can neither investigate nor entertain, being foreign to the
object of their inquiry; and no part of Mr. Wingrove’s statement
appearing, in the opinion of your Committee, to affect the system of Mr.
MᶜAdam, or impeach his claim to a remuneration for services performed,
they feel it necessary only to present his evidence without further
remark.

In like manner, and with the same observation, they may dismiss the
petition of Mr. Lester, between the comparative merit of whose literary
productions with those of Mr. MᶜAdam, and whether Mr. MᶜAdam has
“infringed upon his literary property,” your Committee are not called
upon to determine; nor is it within their province to pronounce an
opinion upon the degree of merit belonging to Mr. Lester for the
construction of the various models of machines exhibited to your
Committee, and alleged by Mr. Lester to be applicable to, and useful
for, the improvement of roads.

In conclusion, your Committee desire to state it as their opinion, that
the value of Mr. MᶜAdam’s system, and consequently of his services, by
no means appears to its full extent upon the roads under the immediate
management of himself, or of his sons; but that the effect produced upon
a considerable portion of the roads generally throughout the Kingdom,
since the adoption of his system, has been manifest, and, as your
Committee conceive, too apparent to escape the most common or
indifferent observer; and further, that it must be obvious, from past
experience, that a system from which so much good has been already
derived, would, if extended over the whole face of the Kingdom, be
productive of the most beneficial consequences both to the condition of
the roads, and in effecting a reduction of the amount of the present
enormous and improvident expenditure.

Your Committee would therefore strongly recommend to the House the
consideration of the subject of making and managing the roads of the
Kingdom in the course of the ensuing Session of Parliament, feeling
convinced that whatever plausible appearance the plan may assume of
appointing a large number of noblemen, gentlemen, farmers, and
tradesmen, Commissioners of Roads, that the practice has everywhere been
found to be at variance with the supposed efficiency of so large a
number of irresponsible managers; and that the inevitable consequences
of a continuance of this defective system will be, to involve the
different trusts deeper in debt, and leave the roads without funds to
preserve them in proper order.

Your Committee cannot close their Report without directing the attention
of the House to that part of Mr. James MᶜAdam’s evidence, in which he
states the practicability of converting the pavement of the streets of
London into smooth and substantial roads; and your Committee have the
satisfaction to inform the House that the experiment is about to be
tried in two very different and distinct parts of the Metropolis, viz.
in St. James’s Square, and over Westminster Bridge and its boundary.
This most desirable improvement has, as appears from the evidence of Mr.
MᶜAdam, senior, and from that of Mr. William MᶜAdam, already been tried,
and completely succeeded (as is well known to many members of the House)
both at Bristol and Exeter, and is in progress of execution upon the
paved ways in the county of Lancaster.

The benefit to the inhabitants of this large City by such an important
improvement, in all its various advantages of comfort, convenience, and
economy, can scarcely be appreciated; and your Committee hope that the
plan about to be tried in two separate parts of London will be found so
far to succeed as to induce its adoption, at least in all the large
streets of the Metropolis, observing, that they believe that it is a
plan which Mr. MᶜAdam has for many years urged the adoption of, and, as
constituting a part of his system, will be found mentioned in all his
publications on the improved system of road-making.

 20th _June_, 1823.




                          MINUTES OF EVIDENCE.




                    _Mercurii, 28º die Maij, 1823._
                        SIR THOMAS BARING, BART.
                             In the Chair.

        _John Loudon MᶜAdam_, Esquire, called in; and Examined.

You were formerly a magistrate, and commissioner of the roads in
Scotland, were you not?—I was.

When did you first turn your attention to road making?—I was a
commissioner and trustee of the roads in Scotland from the time of my
return from America in the year 1783; and I naturally turned my
attention to it there, because they had begun about twelve years before
to make the roads turnpike, and they were carrying them on with
considerable activity when I returned from America; and it appeared to
me at that time, and all the time I was trustee, that there was a great
deal of money expended needlessly, and with very little effect, on the
roads, and that of course turned my attention to the cause. I began then
to travel through different parts of the country to inspect the
different managements of different parts of the road, first in Scotland,
and then I went into England. In the year 1798, I came to live in
England, at Bristol. I have no documents to prove my travelling before I
came to reside in England in the year 1798. In 1798 I began to make it a
sort of business. Without saying to any one what my object was, I
travelled all over the country in different parts. I have a list of such
of those places I travelled to that I happened to keep memorandums of,
but I cannot possibly say all the places I travelled to.

How long were you occupied in travelling for the purpose of obtaining
information for the construction of roads?—It was only occasional
travelling of course. I had some other occupations and private affairs
to look into. I began in the year 1798 to travel as often as I had
leisure and convenience down to the time I took the charge of the
Bristol roads, down to the year 1816, the beginning of 1816 or latter
end of the year 1815.

What was the result of your observations and inquiry of the state of the
roads?—I found the roads were extremely bad in all parts of Great
Britain, as far back as the year 1798, and that very little improvement
took place in them between that time and the year 1815, which I
attributed to the ignorance of the persons who had the charge of them,
the ignorance of the surveyors, the total want of science.

What were the objections which you found?—I found the materials so
applied that the roads were all loose, and carriages, instead of passing
over the roads, ploughed them; that was the general fault of the roads,
and the loose state of the materials, I apprehend, was owing to the bad
selection, the bad appropriation, and the unskilful laying of them. I
came to that conclusion first, from observing that in some parts of the
country where things were better managed, there were better roads; and I
instanced the roads between Cross and Bridgewater, in Somersetshire;
there I saw a better road than in most other parts of the country, and
having inquired into their management, I found that they prepared their
materials better. The next improvement that I saw in roads, was at
Kendal, in Westmoreland, where I think the same result proceeded from
the same cause. That led me to the conclusion, that under a better
system of management a better road would be produced; and having gone to
every part of the country, and inquired into the manner in which they
made the roads, I formed a theory in my own mind. This theory I got
leave to put in practice by being appointed to the care of the Bristol
roads, of which I was a commissioner in January 1816.

Did you make any inquiry into the expenditure of money upon those roads,
that you found in so bad a state?—I did.

What was the result of that inquiry?—I generally found that the expense
was in proportion to the badness of the roads, not to their good
quality, but as the roads were bad and badly managed the expense
increased, and I found few roads that were not deeply in debt and in
distress for money.

In what did the improvident expenditure consist?—I think principally in
carting great quantities of unprepared materials, and putting them into
the roads where they were not wanted; that was one source of needless
expense; and then the materials being put in so bad a state did not
last; the road went soon to pieces. I believe there was a great deal of
other kind of prodigality, of a worse character than carelessness.

Did you find a larger quantity of materials put in the road than was
necessary?—I did, in most instances; a much larger quantity than was
necessary.

Did you discover, in any of the roads, that there were materials
sufficient, if raised, to make a good road, without putting on the
additional, quantity?—In a very great number, I think the greater
number, I found a sufficient quantity of materials for giving them one
good making, without any further addition.

Were these the whole of your observations on the state of the roads?—No.
It is not very easy to explain to gentlemen, exactly, the particulars
that I know to be wrong in roads; I found the water-ways, and things
connected with keeping the roads dry, exceedingly neglected in the
country.

Be so good as to state what defects you observed in the construction of
the roads, besides those you have already mentioned?—I think the
water-ways were extremely neglected, and the roads in general were
covered with water, and many of them standing in wet. It was a practice
formerly to dig a trench when they made the new road. There was a hollow
way, and a great deal of the bad quality of roads in general was owing
to the circumstance that the road was standing in water. I think that
was one very great error formerly; but the roads were made upon no
principle; there seemed to be no object; the persons who made them did
not seem to understand there was some object to be gained; they had no
other idea of mending a road than bringing a great quantity of material,
and shooting it on the ground. When a road got into entire disrepair,
the next thing was to bring a quantity of the same kind of unprepared
material, and to shoot it upon the road.

Did you find that they made use of bad material when a better was to be
procured?—I found that to be very universally the case, that the tops of
the quarries, and that to be easily procured, was taken in general, and
the best stone left behind. I am afraid that is too much the custom in
the country still.

Did you find they put these materials on the road in an unprepared and
unfit state?—I did; they were not broken, nor in many cases cleaned.

Have you any thing further to state with regard to the construction of
the road?—No; I do not recollect any thing further I can state.

What inquiry did you make into the management of the funds of the
different trusts?—I made it a business to inquire generally of the
surveyors, workmen, and people on the roads, as to the expense of
materials, cartage, day-labour, and then I took what pains I could with
gentlemen of the country, to inquire into the state of the funds: with
surveyors and other officers of trusts, I found a jealousy and an
unwillingness every where to give me information. An unauthorized
individual finds it extremely difficult to procure information of that
sort, and I found it so; a very great unwillingness to inform.

What class of persons did you find in the situation of surveyors on the
road?—Always, I think, almost without exception, very low people, many
of them old servants, ruined tradesmen, people without that kind of
energy and character which I think is absolutely necessary for such a
service.

Did you make any inquiry into the mode of the performance of statute
labour?—Yes; I inquired very particularly about that, and I found the
statute labour, when called for, was sent by the farmer to the roads,
but the people seldom did above half a day’s work; and though the farmer
lost the service of his servants and team, the public did not get it; it
was a heavier oppression on the country than benefit to the roads.

Did you find, in collecting the materials, that there was any
deficiency, or any mismanagement, on the part of those who superintended
it?—I had very great reason to believe, that in most instances the
country was imposed on.

Have you any knowledge of it?—No, I have no knowledge; I had no legal
means of taking such measures as should have made me so certain as to be
able to give evidence to it.

What extent of turnpike road is there in England and Wales?—On my first
examination before a Committee of this House, I stated my opinion to be
25,000 miles; but I see, from a corrected state of the returns made to
parliament, which I made out, that the number is 24,599 miles.

Do you know what sum is annually expended upon these roads?—The annual
income has been ascertained by the same returns to be 1,282,715_l._

Can you state what part of the sum goes to the payment of the interest
of the debt, and what is applied to the improvement of the road?—The
mortgage debt in the kingdom is 6,036,502_l._; but there is a large sum
due to treasurers, and balances of interest, which is also bearing
interest, amounting to 569,041_l._ The whole debt that bears interest is
6,605,543_l._

What is the amount of tolls?—1,282,715_l._

What do you compute the expense of statute labour at?—I never have made
any guess at it; for two reasons, statute labour is so difficult to
guess at; and the proportion given to the turnpike roads is so different
in different parts of the country, under local Acts, and under the
general Act; but in the roads under my management it amounts to about
five per cent. of the toll-duty.


                     Mr. _James MᶜAdam_, Examined.

Have you in any instance tried the experiment of converting paved
streets into roads?—I have in several instances taken up small pieces of
pavement that I found upon the several road trusts, and substituted
road. In the town of Stamford I took a piece up of considerable extent,
which is now road instead of the pavement.

What has been the effect of the conversion of the pavement into
road?—The expense has considerably diminished, and facility of
travelling very considerably increased.

Has any suggestion been made to you of converting the pavement of any
part of the streets of London into road?—I have been ordered, by the
Parliamentary commissioners having charge of Westminster Bridge, to
prepare an estimate and report, with a view to convert that pavement
into a broken stone road, which documents I have furnished; and I have
reason to believe that the same will be immediately carried into effect.
I have been also directed by the trustees and proprietors of St. James’s
square, to prepare (which I have done) the same documents, with a view
to substitute a broken stone road in St. James’s square, in lieu of the
present pavement.

What is your opinion of the effect that would be found from its being
carried into execution in all the streets of London, as to the reduction
of expense, and benefit generally to the public?—I consider that the
expense would be most materially reduced; the convenience of passing
over the surface, there could be no doubt, would be generally
facilitated, and made more convenient, particularly in the great leading
streets, such as Piccadilly, Pall-mall, Parliament street and Whitehall,
and others of that description; the expense of the same weight of stone
now put upon those streets as pavement would be obtained at infinitely
less expense, in a different form, for the purpose of road-making.

Is it your plan to raise the present pavement, and convert that pavement
into materials for making the road, or to bring new materials and
dispose of the pavement?—For Westminster Bridge I recommended to the
trustees to sell the present pavement, because as long as pavements
continue to be generally used, stone in that shape and size will always
be valuable, and the same weight of granite I could obtain for the
formation of the road over the bridge at 10_s._ 6_d._ per ton, the
present pavement being worth a guinea per ton; but were the streets of
London generally taken up, pavement would of course become of less
value, and it might be broken for the formation of the roads.

Is that pavement of a quality calculated to make good roads?—The best
material in the kingdom.

What proportion would the pavement now used in the streets of London
bear to the materials necessary to the formation of the roads?—There
would be sufficient for the formation of a strong durable road in the
first instance; and I estimate that a supply of materials for the future
care of the road, for a considerable time, would be left.

Would that answer in all the small streets of the metropolis as well as
for the large and open streets?—I think not so well in the very narrow
streets, which are liable to water, and where, from the width of the
street, the thoroughfare must necessarily be upon one given spot. I beg,
however, to observe, that the thoroughfare in those streets is extremely
small.

Would the dust be increased or diminished by this alteration?—I
consider, that upon a well made stone road, with the same care of
cleansing and watering that is given to the streets, that the annoyance
from dust would be infinitely less; and a road is more susceptible of
retaining the water than pavement.

What would be the proportion of the annual expense between the paved
street and the road?—Taking seven years, during which time I calculate
that the pavement gets worn out, I should think the annual expense of
the road would not be one fifth part, because in that seven years the
whole value of the pavement is nearly lost.

What would be the effect produced upon the necessity of raising the road
for the purpose of alteration of the pipes and other works under the
street?—At present, when this operation is necessary, a paviour, whose
wages are from five to six shillings a-day, is required. Were the
streets converted into stone roads, a labourer at eighteen-pence a-day
would perform the same service; and by due care in laying the materials
on one side, and the earth on the other, the injury to the road would be
extremely small, and the spot would very soon become obliterated;
whereas in raising a part of a paved street it is quite impossible ever
to unite the piece so raised with the rest of the pavement.

Supposing the pavement to be converted into a road, in that case, would
it be necessary, when any pipe was repairing, to stop up the way to
prevent carriages and horses passing?—Certainly not more so than at
present, as that circumstance must always depend upon the width of the
street. In very narrow streets, where the pipe lies in the centre, a
large opening is necessary; it would follow as a matter of course that
the street must be stopped; but upon large streets one side would be
left free.

Would not a repair be more rapidly executed, supposing the way to be a
road instead of a street?—Were the streets converted into roads, the
repair of the roads would be almost unknown to the public, and no
stoppage whatever would take place; the repair of such roads would be
limited to a one-inch coat at a time, which would scarcely be known to
persons passing in carriages, and the great inconvenience at present
constantly felt in every part of this large metropolis by the necessity
of repaving the streets would cease.

You assume that the roads for the streets in London must be made with
granite?—Most assuredly, I should never recommend any other material to
be made use of for the roads in the town.


                Mr. _William MᶜAdam_, further Examined.

Have you, in the course of your practice, converted any paved street
into a road?—Yes, I have; Fore-street Hill, in Exeter, forms part of
that turnpike trust; it is very steep, and was exceedingly slippery, so
much so, that I never rode on horseback down it myself till it was
converted into a stone road; it has been so for a year or two; it has
answered every purpose, and stood remarkably well, and by being watered
a little in very dry weather, I believe there is less inconvenience
found from dust than when it was paved. I have heard some gentlemen say,
that in coming up that hill with their carriages, it not being above a
furlong and a half or two furlongs in length, they have saved from five
to ten minutes time since it was made road; and I have heard coachmen
say, that when they brought their horses quite cool to the bottom of
that hill, they have been quite in a lather by the time they got to the
top of it, from the terror of the horses in slipping about.

That was when it was paved?—Yes.

What kind of stone do you use for making that road?—The pebble of the
country, picked from the gravel pits.

Have you converted any other part of Exeter from pavement into
road?—There is no other part of Exeter under the care of the trust; but
in consequence of the effect which the Chamber of Exeter saw in
Fore-street, they have broken up a great many of the streets in Exeter,
and, I believe, are proceeding gradually to do them all. In the town of
Newton-Abbot there is a county bridge; the county have broken up the
bridge bands, and converted it in a similar manner.


              _John Loudon MᶜAdam_, Esq. further Examined.

Have you, in any instance, made the alteration stated by your sons?—Yes,
I have; I found the suburbs of Bristol were entirely paved when I took
charge of the roads of the district; those suburbs are within the
jurisdiction of the commissioners for the care of turnpike roads; and I
found the expense of paving was very heavy, and the effect very bad, and
I at once took the whole pavement up, and broke the stone that I found
there into a stone road, up to the jurisdiction of the magistrates.

Was that granite stone?—No, a kind of stone called the blue pennet in
that county, and part of a light stone called Brandon Hill stone; both
tolerably good stones: the blue pennet is certainly not so good as
granite; the Brandon Hill stone, when broken, is pretty nearly as good
as granite. But those suburbs having been taken up, and given great
satisfaction the year before last, the magistrates took up half of the
street, called Stoke’s Croft, which is the great entrance of the town
from Gloucestershire. The inhabitants were very much afraid of dust; and
therefore they requested the magistrates not to take up the whole of the
street, but to make an experiment on one half of it, and after a year’s
experiment they consented to the whole being taken up. When I left
Bristol, which is now three months ago, they were busy taking up the
remainder of that street; and I understood it was the intention of the
magistrates to proceed gradually to take up a great number of other
streets in the town.

Do you know what difference it has made in the expense?—That part of the
suburbs that was lifted, and laid again with the same stone broken, cost
5_d._ a square yard for doing it. I took up the stone; I had nothing to
purchase; the stone that came out of the streets fully made the road,
and we had a little remaining for repair afterwards, and that operation
cost 5_d._ a square yard; paving, in the city of Bristol, cost 5_s._
6_d._ a square yard when stone is found by the paviour, and I believe
they reckon the laying down to be eighteen-pence of that.

What would be the difference of expense annually between & paved street
and a road?—I think that road required no repair for the first three
years after it was done.

A paved street would require no repair for seven years after it was
done?—I think we repaired it for about a fifth part of the money, when
it required repair, that a pavement would have cost. We seldom find our
streets in Bristol last above three years; the pavements become rugged,
and full of holes, and so on; they are obliged to be taken up, and they
relay them generally once in three years. There is another street in
Bristol which has been taken up, but I cannot recollect the name of it;
it goes from Stoke’s Croft to Kingston; it has been taken up by the
magistrates, not under my direction.

Has any objection been taken by any person to the alteration that has
been made at Bristol?—No, except the alarm that the inhabitants of Stone
Croft had when it was begun to be done, and they got the magistrates to
delay doing more than half of it till they were satisfied that it would
not inconvenience them; and the circumstance of their sending a request
to the magistrates to finish it induces me to believe that they were
very much satisfied with the experiment. Park-street, in Bristol, has
been done in that way for, I think, seventeen years; I was then a
commissioner for watching and paving the streets of Bristol.

Who did it?—It was done at the expense of the commissioners for watching
and paving, at my wish, and I certainly did superintend it, though I had
nothing to do with it more than any other commissioner had. It is a
street many gentlemen know very well; it is a public road from Bristol
to the Park, and very steep; I believe it is a rise of three inches in a
yard, and when paved was so very dangerous and slippery that many
accidents arose from it, and now it is a very good road indeed, and I do
not believe that it cost upon an average, since that alteration, more
than one fourth of what it used to do.

What stone was it paved with before?—Black rock-stone, a species of
limestone.




                               APPENDIX.


                             APPENDIX (B.)
   MEMORANDUM of Mr. Johnson, respecting the Roads under Mr. MᶜAdam’s
                            superintendence.

As I travel rapidly over great distances, and my attention is usually
much occupied with the immediate business of the office, I cannot speak
with accuracy about particular and local alterations. But I feel myself
well warranted in stating, that whenever I have found any thing done
under Mr. MᶜAdam’s immediate direction, or by his pupils, or even in
imitation of his plan and principles, the improvement has been most
decisive, and the superiority over the common method of repairing roads,
most evident; and, as superintendent of mailcoaches, I have abundant
reason to wish that Mr. MᶜAdam’s principles were acted upon very
generally. If they were, a pace, which in winter or any bad weather
cannot be accomplished without difficulty, would become perfectly easy,
to say nothing of the comfort and safety of the traveller, and the
credit to humanity in lessening the hard labour of the animals. I may
add, that although so much has been accomplished, the postmaster general
could still expedite the conveyance of the mails, and bring the
arrangements of the posts nearer to perfection, if the roads were
universally as much improved as the practice of Mr. MᶜAdam’s plan would
effect.

                                                          CHAS. JOHNSON.

 _General Post-office,
 Dec. 8, 1819._

P.S. As one instance of the benefit of Mr. MᶜAdam’s improvement, I beg
to mention that the _mail last winter lost ten, fifteen, and twenty
minutes, in passing from Staines to Bagshot_, but now the time is
_exactly kept_.

                                                                   C. J.




                             APPENDIX (C.)
LETTER from Postmaster General to the Lords of the Treasury; dated 20th
                             December 1819.


  To the Right Hon. the Lords Commissioners of His Majesty’s Treasury.

 My Lords,

We beg to acknowledge the receipt of Mr. Harrison’s letter of the 26th
ult. transmitting, by your lordships command, the application of John
Loudon MᶜAdam, submitting his claim on account of his inquiries relative
to the improvement of the roads in this kingdom, and requesting any
information in our power with regard to Mr. MᶜAdam’s services.

In conformity to your lordship’s desire, we have applied to the
superintendent of mailcoaches, as the officer in our department most
competent to give information upon the subject of Mr. MᶜAdam’s
exertions; and we beg leave to inclose his report, and to add, that with
respect to the road near Staines, to which he alludes, we had found it
necessary to give notice of indictment, which has been prevented, by the
commissioners resorting to Mr. MᶜAdam’s assistance and advice, which
have produced the excellent road mentioned by the superintendent.

The road from Newbury, through Reading to Twyford has been so much
improved, that the mail-coach has been better enabled to keep its time
than heretofore; and we are convinced, that if the roads near London
were improved in a similar manner, considerable advantages would be
obtained to the correspondence in general, but particularly in places
from ninety to one hundred miles distant.

                     We are, with great respect, My Lords,
                           Your Lordships very obedient humble servants,
                                                 CHICHESTER.
                                                 SALISBURY.

 _General Post-office,
   20th Dec. 1819._




                             APPENDIX (D.)


  Certificate and Recommendation by several Peers and Members of
    Parliament, to the Right Honourable the Lord Commissioners of the
    Treasury, respecting Mr. MᶜAdam’s Claim for remuneration.

It appears to the undersigned, by the report of a Committee of the House
of Commons of last session, and by their own experience and observation,
that the system of road making, introduced by Mr. MᶜAdam, has already
been of great public benefit, as it facilitates the communications of
the country, and affords useful and universal employment to the
labouring class, with sufficient funds already provided.

The undersigned are of opinion, that as Mr. MᶜAdam obtained the
information necessary to perfect his system of road making, entirely at
his own expense, and with the labour of many years; and afterwards, by
his exertions and those of his family, reduced the system to actual
practice, and has now put the public in complete possession of his
plans, Mr. MᶜAdam has a claim on the country for remuneration.

They are further of opinion, that it will be a great means of
encouraging the general adoption of this improved system of road
management, if Government shall be pleased to bestow this mark of their
approbation on Mr. MᶜAdam.

  Chichester, De Laware, Hardwicke, Macclesfield, Salisbury, Beaufort,
    G. Clerk, Wm. Rea, Thomas G. Estcourt, Wm. Dickinson, N. Calvert, W.
    H. Ashurst, J. Fane, J. N. Fazakerley, Carrington, G. Doveton,
    Dacre, Daniel Giles, Wm. Lamb, George Shee, W. Freemantle, Warren
    Bulkeley, Grenville, Folkestone, R. Spencer, R. M. Davis.




                             APPENDIX (K.)


  Letter of Postmaster General to the Lords of the Treasury, on Petition
    of Mr. MᶜAdam for payment of Balance due to him on account of
    services stated to have been rendered by him in the improvement of
    the Public Roads.

 My Lords,

Mr. John Loudon MᶜAdam having addressed to us a memorial, relative to
certain claims on account of the services which he states to have been
rendered by him in the improvement of the public Roads of the kingdom,
we have the honour to transmit the same to your lordships for such
consideration as it may appear to you to deserve; and we have to state,
that _the favourable opinions which we entertained and expressed in our
former reports upon this subject, have been confirmed by experience; and
that by employing Mr. MᶜAdam to survey the roads in Lancashire, the most
beneficial results are likely to follow_.

                      We are, my Lords, with great respect,
                                  Your Lordships most obedient servants,
                                                  CHICHESTER.
                                                  SALISBURY.

 _General Post-office,
   6th Feb. 1823._

  H. Bryer, Printer, Bridge-street, Blackfriars.

------------------------------------------------------------------------




                          TRANSCRIBER’S NOTES


 1. Silently corrected typographical errors and variations in spelling.
 2. Archaic, non-standard, and uncertain spellings retained as printed.
 3. Enclosed italics font in _underscores_.



*** END OF THE PROJECT GUTENBERG EBOOK REMARKS ON THE PRESENT SYSTEM OF ROAD MAKING ***


    

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